Upcoming Events

National | EU

no events match your query!

New Events

National

no events posted in last week

Blog Feeds

Public Inquiry
Interested in maladministration. Estd. 2005

offsite link RTEs Sarah McInerney ? Fianna Fail supporter? Anthony

offsite link Joe Duffy is dishonest and untrustworthy Anthony

offsite link Robert Watt complaint: Time for decision by SIPO Anthony

offsite link RTE in breach of its own editorial principles Anthony

offsite link Waiting for SIPO Anthony

Public Inquiry >>

Human Rights in Ireland
Indymedia Ireland is a volunteer-run non-commercial open publishing website for local and international news, opinion & analysis, press releases and events. Its main objective is to enable the public to participate in reporting and analysis of the news and other important events and aspects of our daily lives and thereby give a voice to people.

offsite link Julian Assange is finally free ! Tue Jun 25, 2024 21:11 | indy

offsite link Stand With Palestine: Workplace Day of Action on Naksa Day Thu May 30, 2024 21:55 | indy

offsite link It is Chemtrails Month and Time to Visit this Topic Thu May 30, 2024 00:01 | indy

offsite link Hamburg 14.05. "Rote" Flora Reoccupied By Internationalists Wed May 15, 2024 15:49 | Internationalist left

offsite link Eddie Hobbs Breaks the Silence Exposing the Hidden Agenda Behind the WHO Treaty Sat May 11, 2024 22:41 | indy

Human Rights in Ireland >>

Lockdown Skeptics

The Daily Sceptic

offsite link The Threat to Democracy Wed Jul 24, 2024 11:29 | James Alexander
'Populists' like Donald Trump and Nigel Farage are a "threat to democracy", chant the mainstream media. In fact, they are just reminding our politicians what they are supposed to be doing, says Prof James Alexander.
The post The Threat to Democracy appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

offsite link In the Latest Weekly Sceptic, Nick Dixon and Toby Young Talk About Biden?s Withdrawal, Kamala Harris... Wed Jul 24, 2024 09:00 | Toby Young
In the latest Weekly Sceptic, the talking points are whether Biden was the victim of a palace coup, Kamala Harris's staggeringly bad speeches and Kim Cheatle's humiliation.
The post In the Latest Weekly Sceptic, Nick Dixon and Toby Young Talk About Biden?s Withdrawal, Kamala Harris?s Chances and the Kim Cheatle?s Shame appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

offsite link Wanted: Climate Researcher to Write Extreme Weather Just-So Stories to Serve Up to Credulous Media Wed Jul 24, 2024 07:00 | Chris Morrison
If you wondered where the MSM get all their lurid stories attributing 'extreme weather' to climate change, look no further than a new job ad for a "researcher" focused on creating alarmist propaganda, says Chris Morrison.
The post Wanted: Climate Researcher to Write Extreme Weather Just-So Stories to Serve Up to Credulous Media appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

offsite link News Round-Up Wed Jul 24, 2024 01:01 | Richard Eldred
A summary of the most interesting stories in the past 24 hours that challenge the prevailing orthodoxy about the ?climate emergency?, public health ?crises? and the supposed moral defects of Western civilisation.
The post News Round-Up appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

offsite link Porsche Scraps Electric Car Targets as Demand Slumps Tue Jul 23, 2024 19:43 | Will Jones
Porsche has scrapped its sales targets for EVs amid a slump in demand. A previous goal of 80% by 2030 has been watered down and the company now says sales will depend on uptake and how the technology develops.
The post Porsche Scraps Electric Car Targets as Demand Slumps appeared first on The Daily Sceptic.

Lockdown Skeptics >>

Voltaire Network
Voltaire, international edition

offsite link Netanyahu soon to appear before the US Congress? It will be decisive for the suc... Thu Jul 04, 2024 04:44 | en

offsite link Voltaire, International Newsletter N°93 Fri Jun 28, 2024 14:49 | en

offsite link Will Israel succeed in attacking Lebanon and pushing the United States to nuke I... Fri Jun 28, 2024 14:40 | en

offsite link Will Netanyahu launch tactical nuclear bombs (sic) against Hezbollah, with US su... Thu Jun 27, 2024 12:09 | en

offsite link Will Israel provoke a cataclysm?, by Thierry Meyssan Tue Jun 25, 2024 06:59 | en

Voltaire Network >>

The official decision on Lisbon should enter into legal force

category national | eu | opinion/analysis author Thursday July 03, 2008 14:01author by Howard Holby Report this post to the editors

So far Ireland has been the only one of the 27 EU-states to demonstrate an independent court decision in favour of democracy and the rule of law [1, 2]. In the new situation brought about by the EU-leaders’ rejection of Ireland’s decision [3, 4, 5], Ireland is again tested as the last fortress of democracy within the EU. This test is on whether the official decision on Lisbon arrived at on June 12, 2008 would enter into force, or the constitutional foundations of Ireland, similarly to the other 26 states, would be bent or circumvented to serve the interests of foreign political forces [2]?

The questions and the proposition of this article are meant to provide a starting point for further legal considerations, building on the assumption that an independent court still exists to protect the constitution, the rule of law and democracy in Ireland.

Initial questions:

1) When responding to the EU’s recent offence against Ireland denying the legal force of the June 12 referendum, why do we think only in terms of ‘respecting a referendum’, when the fundamental issue is legal/constitutional and the key concept is the decision of Ireland , irrespective of the method by which the decision has been made?

2) In legal terms the main question is this: has the Irish Government submitted the official decision of Ireland on Lisbon to the EU or not?

3) From the answer to the above several other questions follow: if not, why not, and how could such decision be reversed by the Irish constitutional law?

Regarding the plan on “a second referendum on Lisbon” [5, 6, 7, 8, 9] two main points can be considered:

A. The constitutional demand that the Irish Government would acknowledge the official result of the referendum of 12 June and accordingly would submit the official rejection of Lisbon by Ireland to the EU .

B. Once the official rejection of Lisbon would be submitted to the EU with the claim that the rest of the EU would withdraw from further ratifications, and this legal obligation is still denied by the EU, the issue should be brought to international court.

With regard to point A:

1) What needs to be examined in the first place: if it is contradiction with the Irish constitution to abandon the result of the June 12 referendum and hold a second referendum in lieu of the first? A second referendum would be based on the false assumption that a) the answer of the electorate obtained on June 12 was not to be acknowledged as the official decision of Ireland b) the result of the June 12 referendum is not valid. Since neither of a) or b) is true, to disregard a valid and official result of a referendum would imply forcing the voters to acknowledge such right of the Government and would establish a precedence of organising referendums without assuming that the referendum outcome would enter into legal force.

2) If the Government is planning to impose the question of the Lisbon ratification on a modified treaty and/or in a context different from the first referendum-question, another key question could be raised: if it is constitutional to use a second referendum as an instrument to manipulate the electorate and subvert their decision obtained via a recent referendum? This would imply that the voters should acknowledge the right of the Government not only to arbitrarily disregard the result of any former referendum but also to arbitrarily fabricate a new context within which the voters are forced to alter their disregarded decision.

3) Further to the above point, if the second referendum on a ‘renegotiated’/modified Lisbon Treaty is planned to be held to overwrite the result of the first referendum, the second should include the exact same conditions as the first. The question regarding Lisbon needs to be answered on its own right by ‘yes’ or ‘no’ solely by consideration of the Treaty. The answer to the question of ratification would be fundamentally distorted when not independently asked but in association with other conditions/decisions. Any manipulation of the former plain referendum question would render the authentic answer of the voters subordinate to arbitrary/coercive factors.

4) Since the outcome of the first referendum contained a very serious international implication: the cancellation of the Lisbon Treaty with regard to all of the 27 member states, a second referendum should be held with the association of the same international consequences/conditions, otherwise it cannot be viewed as a substitute of the first.

5) If a second referendum would be held without substantial modification of the treaty, only regarding details that would be secondary and long-term implications of the overall loss of national sovereignty [10], it would leave a second referendum without justification. However, if a second referendum would be held with substantial modification of the treaty, this would raise the question of fair treatment of the other member states and lead us again to the argument that a second referendum with substantially different questions cannot be considered to be the replacement of the first.

Summary and conclusion

On one hand it should be ruled out that the result of a second referendum that in any way would include a question on ratifying the Lisbon Treaty would be recognised in lieu of the first result, because there is no constitutionally justified reason to hold the same referendum on the same questions twice. On the other hand, if the second referendum would include different questions, structured in a different way with different alternatives, the second referendum under no circumstances can be viewed as the replacement of the first.

In either case we encounter a contradiction which can only be resolved if the decision of the June 12 referendum would enter into force, regardless of any further plans of a second referendum.

If the Irish Government has submitted (or once would submit) Ireland’s official rejection of Lisbon as per the June 12 referendum and the EU decides to disregard Ireland’s decision by violating the principle of unanimity [9], the issue is strictly in the realm of international law and as such is a solid basis for a litigation case against the EU and against all the member states ratifying an illegal treaty.

References

[1] MEP Exposes The EU Lisbon Treaty!!!
The speech of Jens-Peter Bonde, a member of the European Parliament from Denmark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kr0Foq3CQE&feature=related

[2] Our future under a ratified Lisbon Treaty
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87683
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87712
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87730

[3] Respect the Irish Vote: Aftershock in European Parliament
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6QmH-7fu68

[4] More questions for the far-wrong side of Lisbon
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/88135

[5] Is there a democratic life after a dead Lisbon Treaty?
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/88033

[6] Ireland under pressure to vote again on treaty
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/20/ireland.eu
“Asked whether Ireland would need to stage a second referendum to resolve the impasse thrown up by last week's rejection, Sarkozy said: "Is it possible without a vote? To ask the question is to answer it."

[7] EU Constitution author says referendums can be ignored http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/220002....html

[8] Cowen gets year to sell 'Lisbon II' in new vote
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cowen-gets-year....html

[9] Lies, Damned Lies, and a Referendum Re-run
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/88061

[10] Lisbon Treaty: national level competences to be transferred to the EU
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87923

 #   Title   Author   Date 
   Barrack room lawyers against Lisbon.     Desmond O'Toole    Thu Jul 03, 2008 16:42 
   To Desmond - the points you have missed     Howard Holby    Thu Jul 03, 2008 19:21 
   Another Referendum     Frank    Thu Jul 03, 2008 20:40 
   Frank, Howard Holby and others     Sceptic    Thu Jul 03, 2008 21:47 
   Constitutional Status?     Frank    Thu Jul 03, 2008 22:04 
   Agree with Des O'Toole     Alan Bunbury    Fri Jul 04, 2008 03:44 
   Addition to the above post     Alan Bunbury    Fri Jul 04, 2008 03:50 
   Answer To Alan Bunbury - about mixing law with politics     Howard Holby    Fri Jul 04, 2008 08:43 
   Money speaks louder than constitutional law     Doubtful    Fri Jul 04, 2008 08:49 
 10   Reply to Frank & Possible questions to the Supreme Court     Howard Holby    Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:21 
 11   To Doubtful - I am sure you are right     Howard Holby    Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:34 
 12   To Howard Holby (reference post at Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:34 above)     Doubtful    Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:16 
 13   To Doubtful - another idea for challenging the Government     Howard Holby    Fri Jul 04, 2008 14:05 
 14   hurlers on the ditch     Sceptic    Fri Jul 04, 2008 20:22 
 15   Will Of The People     Frank    Fri Jul 04, 2008 20:30 
 16   And more     cropbeye    Fri Jul 04, 2008 23:11 
 17   Lisbon and the UK     paul o toole    Sat Jul 05, 2008 14:48 
 18   A response to Howard ...     Desmond O'Toole    Sun Jul 06, 2008 17:46 
 19   What validity does a referendum have     paul o toole    Sun Jul 06, 2008 18:04 
 20   Response to Paul O'Toole ...     Desmond O'Toole    Mon Jul 07, 2008 01:08 
 21   response to Desmond otoole     paul o toole    Mon Jul 07, 2008 09:49 
 22   Unconstitutional?     Frank    Mon Jul 07, 2008 20:01 
 23   Response to Frank ...     Desmond O'Toole    Tue Jul 08, 2008 20:15 
 24   Accepting The Vote     Frank    Wed Jul 09, 2008 15:46 
 25   Further response to Frank ...     Desmond O'Toole    Thu Jul 10, 2008 00:35 
 26   Observations     Frank    Thu Jul 10, 2008 13:31 
 27   Further response to Frank ...     Desmond O'Toole    Thu Jul 10, 2008 17:01 
 28   Re Desmond O'Toole     Frank    Thu Jul 10, 2008 21:32 


Number of comments per page
  
 
© 2001-2024 Independent Media Centre Ireland. Unless otherwise stated by the author, all content is free for non-commercial reuse, reprint, and rebroadcast, on the net and elsewhere. Opinions are those of the contributors and are not necessarily endorsed by Independent Media Centre Ireland. Disclaimer | Privacy