New Socialist Party General Election Website

by Socialist Fri May 04, 2007 21:37

Good to see this up -

Best of luck in the elections

by Joe Fan Fri May 04, 2007 22:14

I'm a big fan of Joe. The Dail needs a lot more Joes. But what if you don't live in a place where he and his party are running?
I don't. Does he or his party not have anything to say about anywhere else. Still I hope all four get elected.

by Rosa Sat May 05, 2007 00:01

Without endorsing any of them heres the non-Socialist Party left candidates in the other constituencies as far as I know. Feel free to add to the list folks:

Cork North Central: Ted Tynan (WP)

Dublin North West: John O Neill (Irish Socialist Network)
Owen Martin (WP)

Dublin South Central: Cllr. Joan Collins (Community and Workers Action Group)
Brid Smith (SWP/People Before Profit Alliance)
Andrew Mc Guiness (WP)
Brian Phelan (WP)

Dublin South East: Rory Hearne (SWP/PBPA)

Dun Laoghaire: Richard Boyd Barret (SWP/PBPA)

Louth: Peter Short (WP)

South Tipperary: Seamus Healy T.D. (Tipperary Workers and Unemployed Action Group)

Waterford: Cllr. John Halligan (WP)

Wicklow: Carmel McKenna (SWP/PBPA)

For what its worth heres my predictions, based on limited to fairly good knowledge of the situation on the ground.

CNC: Tynan(WP) is a respected activist but he will garner a minimal vote as Barry (SP) will sweep up all the far left vote.

DNW: O Neill (ISN) should build on his respectable local election vote, with Martin (WP) again pulling a minimal vote.

DSC: Colllins (CWAG) has a fair chance of winning the last seat in DSC, beating the pseudo-leftist Eric Byrne(Labour) with the help of a substantial transfer from Smith(SWP/PBPA) , with Mc Guiness(WP) and Phelan(WP) as also rans.

DSE: Hearne(SWP/PBPA) will bomb.

DL: Boyd Barrett will do very well but its just not possible to win a far-left seat in this primarily middle class constituency.

L: Short (WP) is basically a non-runner.

TS: Healy will be under be pressure from the oppurtunist defector Phil Prendergast (Labour), who defected from the TWUAG, but will probably weather the storm.

Waterford: Halligan (WP) will do well but contrary to WP expectations won't be in the running for a seat.

Wicklow: Mc Kenna (SWP/PBPA) will hardly register as coalitionist De Burca (Green) monopolises the left vote.

So I'll stick my neck out and predict an optimistic far-left final result: 2 SP (Daly and Higgins) and 2 Independent (Healy and Collins).

by Joe fan Sat May 05, 2007 00:12

...I'm a SP supporter and a Joe fan, as I've said. I don't get to vote for them other than Euro elections cause they don't run in my place for locals or the general. I would love to know what they think of other people running in other places.
Other than that your thoughts are interesting.

by hardigans Sat May 05, 2007 00:42

I have the same problem. I have no one to vote for. I would have normally vote Bree, but hes just proved himself to be such a me feiner in the last few weeks that theres no way i would give him a number one even if he was going to run. Now he has a complete newt in Cake running to try and damage mcgarry that i have just lost any ounce of respect for him.

I'm gonna vote mcgarry just to vote for labour.

by GO'S Sat May 05, 2007 00:46

"The Greens and Sinn Fein portray themselves as anti-establishment, but both parties have said they are prepared to go into government with either Fianna Fail or Fine Gael, they aren’t fussy which anti-working class government they prop up."

While the cult-like SP shows its disdain for democracy by refusing to countenance working with the parties that the majority of people choose to elect. (Comrade Joe has no problem working with the likes of Jerry Cowley though, perhaps he thinks he's more of a Marxist than any member of Sinn Féin. Sad.)

by sp member Sat May 05, 2007 01:47

"While the cult-like SP shows its disdain for democracy by refusing to countenance working with the parties that the majority of people choose to elect." -

No its simple. We refuse on principal to do political deals or enter government with capitalists parties. Sinn Fein and the Greens are both prepared to enter government with either Fianna Fail or Fine Gael, right-wing capitalist parties that will lead anti-working class governments, therefore we are criticising them for that.

(Comrade Joe has no problem working with the likes of Jerry Cowley though, perhaps he thinks he's more of a Marxist than any member of Sinn Féin. Sad.) -

Joe Higgins doesn't work with Jerry Cowley, he is involved in a technical group in the Dail soley for the purpose of getting speaking rights at Taoiseach's question time and on other occassions which Joe has used very effectively. It is not a political alliance.

by Green Goddess - Mayo Sat May 05, 2007 10:37

Just reading some comments about Jerry Cowley Ind. Mayo,
He like Joe,stood by the people of Mayo, in their hour of need. Not just the Corrib Gas but for Single Parents who are completely ignored by right wing s and some farmers who's husbands died leaving some women vulnerable tot he elements outside!! & many more people who needed help,
Dr. Cowley is a Dooer not a Waffler.

Cowley No. ! MAYO

by Wiki Pedia Sat May 05, 2007 22:36

Carmel McKenna is not a member of the SWP.

This is a non-coalition left list. And there's a strong case for defining the left according to its opposition to coalition. (Did you mention Catherine Connolly in Galway?)

But that said, are there not some left candidates in some pro-coalition parties, or non-anti-coalition independents, who deserve a vote , even if a lower preference, from socialists? For example, Patricia McKenna and Deirdre de Burca (Greens), Dessie Ellis (Sinn Féin), Tony Gregory and Finian McGrath (Independents), Joe Costello (Labour).

BTW, the Workers Party were included in Rosa'a list though they do not fulfill the non-coalition criteria, and they have always supported social partnership.

Predicting the four successes she did is optimistic and hopefully correct, but it is hardly bold and original foretelling.

by Dub Sun May 06, 2007 12:55

The workers Party are not anti-coalition. They supported Haughey in the 1980s. They also supported the Stalinist regimes in Eastern Europe. Not worth backing.

One person asks who to vote for if no decent left candidates. Spoil Your Vote! Don't waste it by backing fools like Labour, Greens and SF.

My predictions:

Socialist Party: Looks like they will take two seats (HIGGINS & DALY)which will be a break through for them. HIGGINS will get 6000 votes, DALY about 7000 votes. They will also score good votes with Councillors MURPHY (around 4000) and BARRY (around 3000).

People Before Proft/SWP: Richard BOYD BARRETT will do well (about 2000 votes). But he won't win a seat and won't be in with a chance. Dún Laoghaire is not a middle class constituency and has strong working class areas. Brid SMITH will be their other decent vote (about 1500). The rest of SWP/PBP will be humiliated with less than 500.

Workers Party: They will all be humiliated except HALLIGAN in Waterford. But even he won't break a couple of thousand.

ISN: A decent campaign will score about 1000 votes for John O'NEILL.

CIL: Joan COLLINS will not win a seat. As a sitting Councillor she will get a respectable vote (about 3000) and may be helped by SMITH's elimination. She will not win a seat. Seamus HEALY has a real battle on his hands but he can make it if he has a decent political challange to Prendergast's politics.

by Rosa Sun May 06, 2007 21:37

You are correct, Carmel McKenna is not a member of the SWP. She is a Labour Party defector who happily went along with the Blairism of that party until she left over the fact that she did no get an election nomination.

The PBPA is correctly seen by everybody else on the left as a wholely owned subsidiary of the SWP but that has been amply debated on other threads. For what its worth if I lived in any of the constituencies where SWP candidates are standing I would vote for them, despite my huge distaste for the politics of that organisation, simply because they are anti-capitalist activists. I would not vote for Carmel McKenna beacuse of her sudden conversion to radical politics (even in the form of the milk and water PBPA) and her lack of a track record.

You are right to point out that I included candidates on my list based on their opposition to coalition. One can hardly expect me to include people, no matter what radical noises they make, who favour coalition with a party of the right to be included in a list of radical left candidates. Sure you might give someone in Labour/Greens/SF who has a decent track record and a bit of principle a lower preference but lets not confuse the issue by including them in a list of radical or anti-capitalist candidates. Next thing we'll end up putting Liz O Donnell on the list cos she's a bit to the left of McDowell!

Catherine Connolly is not a genuine radical left candidate because she happily endorsed Labour's coalitionist politics for years until she fell out with them over the general election nomination. Theres a word for that: opportunism.

The WP is a difficult one. I have no truck with their peculiar, isolationist, semi-stalinist politics but I think they should be included despite their checkered history. Yes the WP supported Haugheys minority governement for a few months in 1982 but thats a long time ago and they seem to be firmly opposed to coalition since the DL split. They also oppose partnership officially even if they do very little in practice to oppose it. Then again they do very little anything in practice! I wont even start on China, North Korea, the North etc.etc.
On balance I'd include them on the list but I could see strong reasons for not doing so.

As for bold and original foretelling, I said I was being hopeful in my prediction. On a bad day it could be just one far left TD elected, probably one of the SPers. For the record I share much of Dubs political outlook but I think his predictions are too optimistic.

by Dub Sun May 06, 2007 22:41

I actually think I'm understating support compared to others on the left. For example the SWP actually believe that Richard Boyd-Barrett will be elected. I'm not joking, they actually do believe it! I've also heard others talking about Joen Collins getting elected. I don't agree. She will certainly do well but by no means will she get elected to the Dáil. I know a few people living in North Dublin and it seems that Clare Daly is doing very well and is picking up votes all over the place from people that didn't support her before. My predictions stand. 2 SP seats, Healy will struggle, Boyd-Barrett/MickMurphy/Barry/Collins will do well. Rest will be insignificant.

by Wiki Pedia Mon May 07, 2007 00:56

Keeping Carmel McKenna and Catherine Connolly (and Patricia McKenna) off a left election list, and putting the Workers Party on. Whose confusing the issue, Rosa?

by Rosa Mon May 07, 2007 12:45

If you read the original list carefully , Wiki, you would see that Carmel McKenna was included. I just added my personal opinion about who I would vote for or not vote for. It was not a 'people who Rosa would give her first preference to' list but just an attempt to draw up a list of non-SP radical left candidates.

Naturally, given that the boundaries of what constitutes the radical left are porous, with groups and individuals passing back and forth over time, there is bound to be dispute over borderline cases. For reasons outlined above I included the WP, whose politics I have little time for, but not Catherine Connolly. Wiki would probably reverse that position but thats just a matter of personal criteria.

Wiki also felt that I should include Deirdre De Burca, Dessie Ellis etc. members of pro-coalition parties who, as probable TDs, are likely to vote for Berties/Enda within a matter of weeks, if the oppurtunity arises. Now thats what I call confused

by So-shall-is(t) Mon May 07, 2007 15:05

..then you should think about organising. It is sad that people think you can go to the polls every four or five years and then sit back and wait for the next election. The Socialist Party are a small organisation we are not in a position to 'parachute' candidates into every constituency and even if we were it would not be genuine activism it would be opportunism. I was involved in setting up the Galway branch of the Socialist party two years ago. Since then the branch has been active and has been gaining support from people in Galway who are tired of being misrepresented by elected officials who talk on the left but are far from being socialists. If there is no Socialist Party candidate or branch in your constituency then you should contact the party and join. You can then organise a meeting and attempt to meet other people who are also sick of the lack of choices in their area. But the important thing to remember is that while it is great to have decent people speaking for the working class in Dail Eireann it is no substitute for genuine activism. Get active, get involved and then maybe we can change something in Ireland.

by mums Mon May 07, 2007 15:24

Greens are a right w. Nothing was done for the Mother at home working around the clock. interupted sleep etc. Mothers are the most valuable asset the country has.l. They have children, our future. . Independents seems to be the buzz word ffor Mothers in the election

by John G Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:32

I think we all know now that Fianna Fail is the natural party of government,they speak the language of the ordinary working class people.The days of the old dinosaur parties and their outdated socialist rhetoric are long over.The wee unelectable Mickey Mouse parties should now listen to the voice of the masses,disband and join with the real parties in building and maintaining all the progress made in recent years in the new modern Ireland we are all fortunate to inhabit.

by Jim O'Sullivan Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:50

"The wee unelectable Mickey Mouse parties should now listen to the voice of the masses,disband and join with the real parties in building and maintaining all the progress made in recent years in the new modern Ireland we are all fortunate to inhabit."

Wow, bet that guy sleeping in the doorway feels he never had it so good or the woman waiting for a breast check must be beside herself with gratitude, or the young couple that can't afford to buy a home, stuck in the hands of a landlord spending good money after bad, are surly grateful too.
Get real.This capitalist govenrment can't even provide the basics like a clean water supply and when the love affair with money abates, such things as community spirit, helping those that need help will re-emerge as the guiding principle for a civilised government and society. We have been delivered into a "greed is good" vulgarity that even makes the USA look like a compassionate caring society
And on top of all this-Eoghan Harris.
How lucky we are indeed.

by Ostrich Country Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:24

As Woody Allen once said,"I've been poor and I've been rich.Rich is better." The people of this country agree which is why the ostrich parties got left with their heads in the sand in this election. We,the working class people,like and appreciate prosperity and will continue to support the parties that can deliver it.Those who cannot or will not understand that are doomed to oblivion(most of the"wee unelectable micky mouse parties"as someone called them are there already,I believe).

by JimO'Sullivan Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:57

Ostrich Country posts,
"As Woody Allen once said,"I've been poor and I've been rich.Rich is better." "

Nothing wrong with being rich-it's when some are rich and the rest are poor-that creates the problem

"The people of this country agree which is why the ostrich parties got left with their heads in the sand in this election."

The PD's got wiped out and they are the party of the "greed is good/everyman for himslef" ideology. The Irish people rejected that ideology. FF also lost ground. If the Irish people wanted to endorse the policies of the outgoing government they would have returned then with a bigger majority/mandate. They didn't. What we have is an FF administration supported by a gaggle of opportunists and turncoats. Never mind, there will be another election

"We,the working class people,like and appreciate prosperity and will continue to support the parties that can deliver it."

Parties don't deliver prosperity, harding working people do. Again the problem is a small clique have been allowed to exploit the general public and accummulate unspendable wealth in the process and create inequity.

"Those who cannot or will not understand that are doomed to oblivion(most of the"wee unelectable micky mouse parties"as someone called them are there already,I believe)."

Sincerely hope you are wrong. Do you really think that the society that is evolving in which "me feinism" fuels antagonism and violence is progress? 11 yr old boys being shot to death while they play. I really do hope you are wrong.

by The Jew Of Malta Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:26

That was in another country and besides,the boy is dead.

by Jim O'Sullivan Sun Aug 26, 2007 08:27

"That was in another country and besides,the boy is dead."

Silly me, of course Liverpool is said to be foreign. We here are more imaginative when it comes to voilence-like trying to burn children alive as they sit in a car.
Are you trying to defend this behaviour or the kind of value system that is nurturing it-or what point are you making?

by tomeile Sun Aug 26, 2007 15:24

You say that working class people such as yourself “like and appreciate prosperity and will continue to support the parties that can deliver it .”
But they are the very same parties that ,up until ten years ago ,delivered you only poverty or the option to emigrate .You kept returning them to power back then as well ,so it can’t really be Ireland’s new prosperity that attracts you to them.
Did Woody Allen really say that bit about rather being rich than poor by the way? If so, it surely couldn’t be one of the wittiest things he’s ever come out with or the most original.

Jim O'S, I think the last poster was simply pointing out that Liverpool is not in Ireland . The SP does have a tendency to ,either mix that up ,or to place no political importance on the matter . It is dishonest to make out that you were referring to the torching of the car incident in Limerick in your original post

by Sceptic Sun Aug 26, 2007 20:16

But is this true? Firstly don't underestimate the ability of bad Government to destroy or undermine a prosperous economy. Governments might not create prosperity but good governance, usually provided by parties, is a necessary condition for enduring prosperity. To say hard working people deliver prosperity is an oversimplification. Less hard working people can easily deliver more wealth than non-hard working people if they have more productivity. Much depends on the value chain. Broadly the public supported FF and FG in the last election because they posed the least threat to prosperity. Left wing parties are overly concerned with State ownership and statism in general, cosying up to privileged public sector unions and increasing taxes etc. and are therefore seen an inimical to prosperity.

by Jim O'Sullivan Mon Aug 27, 2007 08:58

"Parties don't deliver prosperity, hard working people do." ??
Sceptic replies,
"But is this true? Firstly don't underestimate the ability of bad Government to destroy or undermine a prosperous economy."

Well try creating properity( in the monetary sense) without hard working people. If it could be done we would see examples all over the place. Money wealth with little effort?

"Governments might not create prosperity but good governance, usually provided by parties, is a necessary condition for enduring prosperity. To say hard working people deliver prosperity is an oversimplification."

Could you unravel this please? Which is it? Either goevrnments or hard working people create monetary prosperity

"Less hard working people can easily deliver more wealth than non-hard working people if they have more productivity. Much depends on the " value chain."

Now we have a new culprit, the "value chain"

" Broadly the public supported FF and FG in the last election because they posed the least threat to prosperity."

This analysis is flawed. Support for FF dropped and the vote for FG was clearly a desire to change government. Again the present government is a mismash of FF, a PD and few odd and very strange opportunists and turncoats. It will not last a full term.

"Left wing parties are overly concerned with State ownership and statism in general, cosying up to privileged public sector unions and increasing taxes etc. and are therefore seen an inimical to prosperity."

The difference between the FF/PD outgoing government and other parties was one of ideology. Privatise everything and allow a small cligue to accummalate uncountable wealth and hope that trickle down will keep the "middle classes" happy. That is essentially the policy of the PD's and the people rejected it out of hand. FF will be foolish to ignore that because next time such a rejection will be focused on them as the PD's have all but gone.
Privatisation has not been good for the country. Eircom for example was handed over to a small bunch of greed merchants who run telecommunications for their own benefit. Where is the roll out of broadband? We lag far behind our neighbours. Every mobile phone owner in the country has been robbed at one time or other by "subscription servcies" run by off shoots of the bigger outfits, yet this government refuses to undertake the simple task of stopping this theft. Good government?
Left wing parties are overly concerned with delivering a community that is fair and just and at ease with itself. Look at the Nordic countries for the better examples. Vital servcies available as required, schools, hospitals etc etc. Essential servcies are available to all citizens with equality of access. Do they pay higher taxes than we do? Yes, more direct tax that is open and tranparent but what about the indirect taxes, the so called stealth taxes? But of course you cannot provide basic services in a low tax enocnomy. All that a low tax enconomy produces in the end is greed, division and a society ill at ease with itself. Look around Sceptic. and one thing is for sure, if the govenrment continues with these laissez-faire policies, things will get much worse.

by Sherbert Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:29

Disappointed (still) to see Joe lose his seat.

Irish people have fallen for the FF line of protect the so-called 'Gains' and the simple effective mono-messaged placard campaign they posted around the city caught the eye sufficiently and underpinned the fear out there that a recession is what FG/Lab would deliver.

It’s just a pity that they (the electorate) where not politically astute enough to realise they where voting back in the very same morons who are now (and where) greasing the tracks towards recession.

by Rabbite Redoux - Hares Apparent Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:12

Don't blame the workers,they are not as stupid as you'd like to think and they called the election the way they saw it.The PDs are finished,the Shinners mortally wounded,Fine Gael in terminal disarray and Labour in permanent limbo thanks to inept leadership.The " wee unelectable Micky Mouse parties "(great description of the lunatic fringe outfits)are utterly off the radar.The people have said "Yes!" to Fianna Fail and the Greens and what the people say is good enough for those of us who care about democracy.I salute their collective wisdom.Joe who,by the way?