Peace Campaigner to Address Sligo Meeting

by Major Richard Head Thu Mar 15, 2007 19:25

I was there. It was lovely....Not the word you would expect to use to describe a talk about a bombed out country, but when youve read the news seen the pictures heard the horror stories it was lovely to see the whole thing humanised through Caoimhe's words and pictures. And Caoimhe.. well I had never expereienced her so I had prepared my earholes for an assault of complete flakey meusliness,. but no way!

That ladies got gumption, she can talk, she can listen and she knows her mind.

Two hours well spent with 80 or so good people, well 79 or so, coz one guy was a dick for sure. But that's mine and his secret.

Thanks Caoimhe. Hey and that Declan Bree fella makes a lot of right noises for a mayor, good work Bree. You should have been a politician or something.

by union member Thu Mar 15, 2007 20:18

Enough from the "Bree is a Wonderful Fellow Fan Club" (BAWFC). We could talk all week about Iraq and we would not alter a thing. As for the attendance of eighy, the last time Bree saw 80 people in the same place was when he made his first holy. Any chance of meetings dealing with a few problems nearer to home? Oh. I forgot, that might end with a committment to actually do something.

by Maj. R. Head Thu Mar 15, 2007 20:27

No Mr. Member You are wrong.

The last time Mr Bree saw 80 or so people together was last night in the Glass House Hotel, unless of course he was at mass today or perhaps a game of footie. Dont be such a hard Union member.

by Former Labour Supporter Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:11

Whatever about the Blueshirt element in Sligo Labour criticising Declan Bree in separate threads that relate to Cllr Jim McGarry joining Labour and with the ongoing row within the party in Sligo it would now appear that they want to spread their malign and reactionary influence into other threads

'Union Member’ has been very vocal on another thread (New Labour Row in Sligo) in supporting the candidature of Clr McGarry as the Labour Party candidate in Sligo in the forthcoming general election. ‘Union Member’ also has no difficulty supporting those who pass picket lines.

Now he intervenes in a thread that relates to a Public Meeting on Lebanon, Palestine and Iraq where the main speaker was Caoimhe Butterly. In his intervention he attacks Bree, challenges the fact that there were at least 80 people in attendance at the meeting and disregards the importance of the public meeting itself.

I think his intervention in this thread speaks volumes about the views and the values of the McGarry wing of Labour.

If McGarrys supporters had any concept of what the Labour movement is all about and if they had any concept of international solidarity. They would have been present at the public meeting and other such events, showing their solidarity with those struggling for justice in the Middle East

But no – not only do they never support such events - they have to find fault with the event. I counted 76 people present - but whats the point nitpicking about the number of people at the meeting. The fact is it was a hugely successful event and Caoimhe Butterly gave a wonderful presentation

If ‘Union Member’ and his associates want to pontificate their reactionary views and if they want to continue with their negative attacks on Declan Bree would they please do so on the threads relating to the Labour row in Sligo

by Luis Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:02

Cllr Jim McGarry is on record as a supporter of the US military using Shannon to transport troops to Iraq.

You would hardly expect him to support the views of Caoimhe Butterly!

by Union Member Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:04

Former Labour Supporter seems paranoid with my posting to Indymedia and seems to suggest that because I post on other issues my view is somehow suspect. The reason that I post on all matters pertaining to Bree at this time is because he has set out to damage the chances of Labour winning a seat in this area and reducing the chances of a change of government and he is doing so only because his ego has been dinted by the decision of the party to run another candidate instead of him.

Does Bree not see the suffering of the most vulnerable people in his community under the right wing policies of this government? Did he watch Prime Time on RTE that showed people dying because they had no money and therefore had to join long queues behind those with money and by the time they were seen their disease had spraed beyond cure? Does he not remember a constituent of his own who died in front of us all as his hospital appointment after hospital appointment was cancelled?
I know all about the crimes that are being perpetrated against the people of the middle east but what is a meeting in Sligo going to do to change that? It is only an opportuinity for ego's to sprout hot air and get mug shots in the paper.

I also know all about Jimmy McGarry's lack of priniciples and I cringe to think that he was the only candidate in the area that those who know decided had the best chance of winning a seat. But why is that? Is it possible that it is because those who say they are socialists spend all their time arranging meetings on social injustices that are occuring elsewhere to the detriment of highlighting and fighting social justices nearer to home?
The only thing "malign and reactionary" to come out of Sligo in recent times has been Bree's campaign to damage the propect of a Labour seat here and therefore allowing the possibility of another 5 years of PD power to contuiniue dismantling servcies and creating a society based on wealth. Those without money will be allowed to die waiting on trolloys without so much as a blink of an eye. Only Stalin behaved in such a callous way while masquarading as a socialist. I can see parallels and I intend to resist it at every opportunity. I want the peole of Sligo to get a government that will care for the weakest and give everybody an oppotunity to enjoy life to the full. If you have the same hope, who do you intend to vote for?

by Former Labour Supporter Fri Mar 16, 2007 14:43

I am not paranoid about your postings. There is currently a thread relating to the Labour row in Sligo which you have been contributing to and I would have thought that you and Cllr McGarrys other supporters would have enough space there to vent your spleen.

Now you post on this thread to criticise Declan Bree for organisng Caoimhe Butterly’s visit to Sligo.

This thread is about showing solidarity with the people of the Lebanon, Iraq and Palestine - its about Caoimhe Butterly and her inspirational work on behalf of the oppressed.

If you wish to go on whinging about Declan Bree and if you wish to campaign for Cllr McGarry to win a Labour seat in Sligo would you please use another thread.

by Maire T Fri Mar 16, 2007 15:53

I was one of the people who heard Caoimhe Butterly speak in the Glasshouse. She was something else. Her command of language is superb and her knowledge of the Middle East and its people is second to none. Thanks to her and people like her we are learning at first hand of the courageous struggle of the people of Palestine and Lebanon. She has already been shot for standing up to injustice and she deserves the support of all of us. I say well done to those who organised the event.

by TP Fri Mar 16, 2007 16:46

I apologise for butting into this thread but I must admit I find ‘Union members’ comments intriguing.

‘Union member’ says: “I know all about Jimmy McGarry's lack of principles and I cringe to think that he was the only candidate in the area that those who know decided had the best chance of winning a seat”

Having said that ‘Union member’ then expects the people of Sligo to vote for Jimmy McGarry in the General Election

Have I missed something?

Sorry again for butting in.

by Former Labour Supporter Fri Mar 16, 2007 17:26

TP - your point is well made but comments on the Labour row in Sligo should be posted on another thread

by Union Member Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:43

I intend to vote for the party that will give the best chance of keeping the present FF/PD coalition from being re-elected. That is the only chance we have of stopping the wholesale americanisation of our society. Once the trend is halted, socialists can then begin to work to have the damage already done reversed. Another 5 years of the present government would leave this state indistinguisable from any of the states of America. The next GE is therefore cruicial. A mischief maker working to damage the propects of an alternative cannot be a socialist in the circumstances. A socialist would make any sacrifice to remove the present government and to put an end to their neo-con economic policies which has resulted in people dying because they cannot get into hospital and this scandal has merely raised an eyebrow. There ought to have been protests in the streets when news of what is happening was broadcast. That that did not occur is a comment on the state of our indifference to what is happening and that is very dangerous. We are becoming an outright capitalist state, even further right than Bush, and this is happening by stealth while Bree sets out on his ego trip, starts a phoney war, attacking fellow party members and damaging the prospect of a Labour seat.
And we have the usual Stalinist tactics of casting slurs and attempting to stifle debate. He tries to tell me to go elsewhere with my case. The arrogance is breathtakingn but no way . You started this so called row for purely selfish reasons and wherever you go I will follow and point out the truth until you stop this malign campaign that will only serve the right wing agenda in Sligo. Which begs the question, has Bree been bought? What was the real price that he paid for the Mayors chain? And if there are individuals behind the pseudonyms that follow Bree around I make a plea to them to consider carefully what they are doing and the likely consequences of their actions. Could they live with another 5 years of Ahern and Harney? Look at your kids while you ponder that.

by m murrin - socialist Sat Mar 17, 2007 21:45

U M how can you call yourself a socialist or a real union member to surpport a RAT like mc garry. The man's record makes paisley look left wing he also pass a picket manned by labour cllrs in may 03 please get REAL this man is laughing at you

by Jane Clarke Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:26

I was late for the meeting in the Glasshouse Hotel and missed some of Caoimhe’s talk but I did get the opportunity of listening to her on the OceanFM talk show next morning.

This woman is amazing. Three of my friends who have little interest in the Middle East or in politics also listened to her on the radio programme. When the interview finished all three expressed their regret that they did not get to hear her talk the evening before.

There are very few people who are capable of getting their views across like this woman She told the story about the terror that Israel and the US wields over the lives of Palestinians and Lebanese alike and she told it like I never heard before.

Thank you Declan bree and Connolly Forum and the Palestine Solidarity campaign for organising Caoimhe’s visit to Sligo. And thank you to OceanFM and its presenter for what can only be described as a memorable interview

by kevin c Mon Mar 19, 2007 17:17

I was one of those who attended Caoimhe’s talk and I have attended a number of other meetings organised by the Connolly Forum in the past 6 months – one honouring the Spanish Civil War veteran Bob Doyle and another dealing with the Rossport campaign. So I feel I have the right to comment on the postings

Union member obviously has a phobia about Bree – I suppose all of us have one type of phobia or another ( I hate cats) Mind you I don’t understand the over the top attack seeing as that Bree and the Connolly Forum are not contesting the elections

Union member says he knows all about Clr Jimmy McGarry’s lack of principles.

Why then does he want us to replace the present lot of unprincipled FF/PD politicians with unprincipled Labour politicians like McGarry?

by J O'Reilly Mon Mar 19, 2007 19:00

I am pleased that Declan Bree has confirmed he will not be running as an independent in the forth-coming General Election. He has answered his critics by doing the principled thing in this matter and not split the left leaning vote. This will boost SF chances of a seat and will help Keep FF from getting the third seat.

Bree had no chance of getting elected anyway, his running in the election would have been further construed as egotistical by those who are already criticising him.

This move will leave the Cllr free to direct all his energy into raising the profile of international injustices through the connolly forum.

by Union member Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:07

Kevin C. states that he has attended a number of meetings organised by Bree and his Connolly forum and goes on, "So I feel I have the right to comment on the postings" Kevin, your right to comment is enshrined in the right to free speech and it is not necessary to attend events organised by anyone. This just goes to show that Stalinism can rub off on anyone that gets close to it so maybe Kevin C. ought to be more selective regarding the company he keeps.
Regarding O'Reilly's claim that Bree will not now be running in the GE, this is good news. Can this phoney war now be put to sleep and let us all concentrate on how to ensure that this government is kicked out of office.

by Lefty Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:27

Does this mean we all have to vote for that gobshite McGarry ????....I dont think so !

by LP Member Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:09

Lefty, you can vote for who you like. It’s called democracy. The only certainty is you wont be voting for Declan Bree as he is not running, which in my opinion is the correct decision for him to make at this time.

I am a member of the Labour party and I have been severely pissed off with the whole debacle over McGarrys nomination. I have no-time for the man or his flip-flop opportunism. But I have also been disappointed with Brees conduct in all this. He has been instrumental in a local clandestine campaign to attack McGarry at every turn and I believe this is not out of any loyalty to the party or want to save it from itself. I believe Brees motives are far more ego-centered and reactionary. In the current climate and the immediate and very real dangers a further 5 yrs of this government could create this type of underhandedness speaks volumes and is far short of what I would have expected from an elder statesman of the left.

In closing

If Declan Bree had run as an independent I would not have followed.
If you have a problem with McGarry don’t vote for him. If you want to vote for someone left wing, vote Sinn Fein. There are issues at stake here that are bigger then party allegiance and local parish pump politics.

I will for the first time in 15 Years be voting for Sean MacManus

by kevin c Tue Mar 20, 2007 21:51

I know my right to comment is enshrined in the right to free speech. I just felt that this thread should be left to the issue of Caoimhe Butterly’s meeting.

Now that its widened somewhat I feel I should point out that when I said that Bree and the Connolly forum were not contesting the election, I did so because he has made no declaration that he will contest.

Should Declan Bree decide to contest as an Independent or Socialist I would give him my No1 vote and I would give my No 2 to Sean McManus. I think thats the best way to use PR as I feel that McManus as a party candidate would have enough first preference votes to keep him in the fray. I voted for both McManus and Bree at different times in the past as I have found both of them principled and honest. In saying that I have never had much time for the Labour Party. If McManus is the only left winger in the field he will get my 1st preference

With McGarry’s own supporters pointing out that McGarry has no principles and with Labour party members actually declaring that they will not vote for him it says it all.
I can confirm that he will receive my last preference vote.

by Lefty Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:19

Since when did Sean McManus take on the mantle of a left wing politician?This is the man who sat idly by with his Sinn Fein collegues on the Corporation and allowed the refuse to be privitised.And all for the Mayors chain!......He is some socialist. I have no time for Bree and even less for the hypocrites in Sinn Fein.For the first time in 30 years I will not be voting.

by SF supporter Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:43

Kevin, you are retracting, you stated uncategorically that Bree wasn’t running in a previous post, Let me remind you.

“Mind you I don’t understand the over the top attack seeing as that Bree and the Connolly Forum are not contesting the elections”

That is not a quote taken out of context or a spin on words, it is you stating in no uncertain terms that Bree is not running.

You then tried to distance this assertion by tripping backwards over what you said and merely pointed it out as a fact in the absence of any declaration of Bree to run as follows,

“I feel I should point out that when I said that Bree and the Connolly forum were not contesting the election, I did so because he has made no declaration that he will contest.”

Was this a knee jerk reaction to LP members call to vote Sean MacManus No1?
Seeing as you then went on the campaign trail for Bree it would seem so.

To ensure that Sean does not get eliminated he needs ALL the No1 votes he can get. There is no room for ifs, what’s or maybes this time around. Transfers are of no use to him if he gets knocked out in the first or second count and that could happen given the new make up of the constituency. Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of the PR system would know that. Your first preference vote would be wasted despite what Kevinc would have you believe with this conjecture:”I feel that McManus as a party candidate would have enough first preference votes to keep him in the fray”
Nope, that is guesswork and not enough to allow people the luxury of playing the PR game with voter preferences.

Declan Bree hasn’t got a snowballs chance in hell of getting elected, he has lost the Labour core vote and is hoping against hope that his old ISP vote will follow him and there is absolutely no guarantee of that. Objections to McGarry are actually quite muffled in Sligo. There has not been a mass uprising of Labour in the region in staunch defence of Bree. A neutered indifference prevails to the situation which will not result in any protest vote from Labour supporters despite what Bree would have you believe. The war of words between Bree and McGarry are exactly that. Words! Bree should have walked years ago when he was at the top of his game. He didn’t and has lost a lot of credibility.

I agree with LP member. Bree will be running for ego-centered reasons. The reality of the situation is that Bree got shafted by Labour and was passed over for the candidacy, (Bree withdrew to spare his blushes) and is out for revenge. Nothing principled or righteous, no selfless defence of socialism in Sligo. Just pure and simple revenge.

A number one for Bree will only be an appeal to his vanity. Nothing more.

If he was a true socialist he would take a back seat on this election and not create voter confusion for purely selfish reasons.
But he won’t. Bree is a Me Feiner and does only what suits Bree.

by kevin c Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:29

I don’t understand why Sinn Fein supporter is getting all excited about my comments. To my knowledge Bree has not indicated that he will be a candidate and that has been the case all along. Now because I said he was not contesting the election it would appear that I am considered some type of spokesperson for Bree.

I’m not sure why you say transfers are no use to Sean McManus. I have always made full use of PR and I can confirm that transfers are most important – particulary for a Sinn Fein candidate.

Should Bree decide to contest the election I figure that Sean McManus will be ahead of Bree in first preferences and in that case I will give my No 1 to Bree and No 2 to McManus. If it appears to me that McManus will have less No1’s then Bree then I will give McManus my No 1 and Bree my No 2. Its just maximising the PR system from my viewpoint. If Bree is eliminated McManus will get the vote and if McManus is eliminated Bree will get the vote. Isn’t that what PR is all about.

You say if Bree was a true socialist he would take a back seat in this election. It seems to me that if true socialists take back seats we will see no progress. McManus and Bree are honest and principled and they deserve the support of the ordinary people of Sligo and Leitrim

I also ask myself why those who post saying that Bree will get little or no votes or say that he hasn’t a snowballs chance of being elected, get themselves into a state of near hysteria when it is even suggested that he might contest the election !

Anyhow for now I will be giving McManus my No 1 vote as he is the only left wing candidate declared. In the event of Bree declaring I will give him my No1 with Sean McManus getting my No 2.

by Union member Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:30

Kevin C, states that "Bree is honest and principled" Will he run by us again the detail of the pact Bree entered into with FF to the get the Mayors chain around his neck? We clearly have missed something. Bree's continued attempts to drag Sean MaManus into this spat is odd. Has he entered a pact with SF now?
I agree that a vote for Sinn Fein is capable of having the effect of ousting the present government (the first prioity or do you disagree with that) and that possibility must be considered on voting day. I still say that it could be disasterous to vote for Bree as an Independent because he has little chance and will only hamper the chances of others better placed to take a seat.
If all those in Sligo who want to get rid of this government work together, it is possible to keep the third seat away from FF. I beleive that if FF win two seats here, they will return to office. In that event we can only hope that voters elsewhere do enough damage to the PD's to keep them out of governemnt. In that scenario it may be possible to get FF to drop their present neo-con policies and revert to the middle left ground for the simple reason that either Labour or Sinn Fein will be king makers and surly either will insist on a change in direction for the country. That would be a start to getting the country back on to a left of centre path. If we continue on our present course, we will end up like a banana republic with an elite controlling all aspects of life here, the situation is really that stark.

by SF supporter Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:39

Kevin, Nobody is getting excited.

But you are mixing up the acronyms here. Your ‘PR’ spin for Bree is misleading.

PR vote management is a useful tool, but it is irrelevant in this case. Most telling in your naivety is your following analysis.”Should Bree decide to contest the election I figure that Sean McManus will be ahead of Bree in first preferences and in that case I will give my No 1 to Bree and No 2 to McManus. If it appears to me that McManus will have less No1’s then Bree then I will give McManus my No 1 and Bree my No 2. Its just maximising the PR system from my viewpoint. If Bree is eliminated McManus will get the vote and if McManus is eliminated Bree will get the vote. Isn’t that what PR is all about.”

Bree if he runs will most definitely have far fewer first preferences than MacManus, up to 50% less, perhaps a lot more now Bree is not under the Labour Banner. Bree will certainly be eliminated at the first count that is not in question here. What is in question is whether MacManus will be eliminated at the first count. If he is then this all speculation and transfer utilisation will be for naught.

A first preference for Bree will be a wasted vote especially if you have voted MacManus No2 and he has been eliminated because he didn’t receive enough First preferences.

This is not rocket science, you are either failing to see the obvious logic in what I’m saying because you are in the Bree camp or don’t care who gets elected as long as McGarry gets a drubbing at the polls. It could possibly explain this off the assessment you made: “ I also ask myself why those who post saying that Bree will get little or no votes or say that he hasn’t a snowballs chance of being elected, get themselves into a state of near hysteria when it is even suggested that he might contest the election !”

People say Bree hasn’t a snowballs chance in hell of getting elected because he hasn’t a snowballs chance in hell of getting elected. Plain simple language Kevin and a very reasonable assumption considering his past record and the strength of support he could confidently garner.

No hysterics, no feverish rants just considered analysis as to why Bree should step aside and help MacManus get in.

The only way to guarantee MacManus is not eliminated to for him to garner as much No1 preferences as possible. This is a three-seater constituency. FF and FG are guaranteed two seats, the third is up for grabs if SF can get the vote out.

by kevin c Wed Mar 21, 2007 16:24

Union member has been attempting to drum up support for McGarry and Labour on this and other threads and he has been saying that Bree has set out to damage the chances of Labour winning a seat in this area. Is he crazy? The dogs in the street know that Labour and McGarry haven’t a hope in hell of winning a seat in this area.

And then he goes on about the agreement that the Labour councillors entered into with Fianna Fail. I figure everyone in Sligo with the exception of Union member is aware of the agreement. Given that he’s a supporter of McGarry it’s a wonder he didn’t think to ask the councillor. Its no big secret.

To my knowledge the deal is as follows: Bree and Cawley to have the support of the FF and Labour councillors for the position of Mayor while McGarry to have the support of the FF and Labour councillors for the position of Chair of the County Council.
In return 3 FF reps to receive the support of the FF and Labour councillors for the position of Mayor, and 3 FF reps to receive the support of the FF and Labour councillors for the position of Chair of the County Council. It was also part of the agreement that Independent councillor Margaret Gormely would have the support of the FF and labour councillors for the position of Chair of the County Council. The positions on council committees were also agreed on. Full Stop. Nothing new or wild or exciting there!

With regard to the comments of SF supporter I can only say that I would have a lot more confidence in Sean McManus getting a sufficient number of first preference votes then he has. He claims that if Bree runs he will be eliminated on the first count.
And then he says a first preference for Bree will be a wasted vote especially if you have voted MacManus No2 and he has been eliminated because he didn’t receive enough First preferences.

I disagree with him when he suggests that both McManus and Bree would be eliminated in the first count. I figure that McSharry, McGarry and Henry will be eliminated in the early counts.

However, I suppose this is all hypothetical given that Declan Bree has not declared he is going to be a candidate.

by Union member Wed Mar 21, 2007 18:31

"Union member has been attempting to drum up support for McGarry"

Wrong, I have tried to highlight Bree's dangerous and selfish campaign against Labour in an effort to prevent it damaging the propect of a Labour seat and to point out that at best what Bree is doing is trying to give life to a dead horse plan to run himself under some banner or other which simply has no chance and will damage the propects of a better placed left candidate.

" The dogs in the street know that Labour and McGarry haven’t a hope in hell of winning a seat in this area."

What the dogs in the street know is that Bree has no channce and for him to run would be a deliberate attempt to prevent a left candidate winning. He would be playing into the hands of Ahern and Harney. Some socialist !!!

" I figure everyone in Sligo with the exception of Union member is aware of the agreement."(FF/Bree pact)

Not so. I have not met a single person in Sligo who is aware of what was agreed. Kevin C then goes on to give the following detail of the pact agreed.

"To my knowledge the deal is as follows: Bree and Cawley to have the support of the FF and Labour councillors for the position of Mayor while McGarry to have the support of the FF and Labour councillors for the position of Chair of the County Council.
In return 3 FF reps to receive the support of the FF and Labour councillors for the position of Mayor, and 3 FF reps to receive the support of the FF and Labour councillors for the position of Chair of the County Council. It was also part of the agreement that Independent councillor Margaret Gormely would have the support of the FF and labour councillors for the position of Chair of the County Council. The positions on council committees were also agreed on. Full Stop."

It's amazing that Kevin C. has chapter and verse of the agreement. Was he there in the backrooms when it was struck I wonder? What we have here is councillors elected to serve the interests of the people divvying out the jobs among themselves without seeking one concession for the people who elected them. All those mentioned are equally culpable, but Bree is the only one that posts almost daily blowing his own trumpet and telling us how principled he is. A man apart he would have us believe but if nothing else this little episode shows that he is no different at all and will look after himself as good as the next charlatan.

"However, I suppose this is all hypothetical given that Declan Bree has not declared he is going to be a candidate"

If so then his motives are simply to thwart the chances of a Labour seat. Given the damage that a another term of neo-con politics will do to this country, this behave is pathetic. I'm beginning to feel sorry for the man.

by kevin c Wed Mar 21, 2007 19:37

Union member says “I have tried to highlight Bree's dangerous and selfish campaign against Labour in an effort to prevent it damaging the prospect of a Labour seat.”

What type of nonsense is that? - the dogs on the street know that McGarry never had the prospect of winning a seat.

Reading through all the posts on this and other threads from Union member, it’s obvious that he has a phobia about Bree.

What did Bree do to you to put you in such a state? He really, really pissed you off didn’t he.

I’m not sure what Union member means when he says “What we have here is councillors elected to serve the interests of the people divvying out the jobs among themselves without seeking one concession for the people who elected them.”

Is it not routine after elections for councillors to make appointments to the various committees. I don’t think the people who elected them are eligible for appointment.

You conclude by again attacking Bree and stating that “his motives are simply to thwart the chances of a Labour seat” Thwart the chances of McGarry winning a seat!! Jesus Wept!

As I said already I will be voting for McManus No 1. If Bree does decide to run I will give him my No 1 and give McManus my No 2.

Will Union member give McManus his No 2 or will he vote for the Blueshirts?

by Union member Wed Mar 21, 2007 21:25

"What type of nonsense is that? - the dogs on the street know that McGarry never had the prospect of winning a seat."

Rubbish. A swing to Labour would lift all candidates. That even happened to Bree, remember.

"Reading through all the posts on this and other threads from Union member, it’s obvious that he has a phobia about Bree."

Bree as a person does not interset me one bit. His potential to split the left vote in Sligo for selfish reasons does.

"What did Bree do to you to put you in such a state? He really, really pissed you off didn’t he."

Save the amateur psychoanalysis. Bree has not the capacity to piss me off. He is neutered and therefore essentially irrelevent. Anyway, not interested in personalities. Getting rid of sitting government is only objective. If Bree or nick the devil could deliver that I would support them.

"I’m not sure what Union member means when he says “What we have here is councillors elected to serve the interests of the people divvying out the jobs among themselves without seeking one concession for the people who elected them." Is it not routine after elections for councillors to make appointments to the various committees. I don’t think the people who elected them are eligible for appointment."

It may have become routine, but that does not make it any less hypocritical to vote to elect a right wing person into a post from where they can pursue their agenda. A person with socialists principles would never vote to do so and certainly not in return for favours from those political opposites. It's this type of unprincipled behaviour that creates apathy among the electorate.

"You conclude by again attacking Bree and stating that “his motives are simply to thwart the chances of a Labour seat” Thwart the chances of McGarry winning a seat!! Jesus Wept!"

You keep wanting to personalise the issue. What I want is to do want ever is necessary to keep the third seat away from FF and stop Jesus weeping among other things. That can't be too difficult to understand.

"As I said already I will be voting for McManus No 1. If Bree does decide to run I will give him my No 1 and give McManus my No 2."

Your first option of giving McManus your no.1 is sound.To give Bree your no.1 should he decide to run would be counter-productive. To do so will place the third seat beyond a left candidate. You may as well vote for Jimmy Devins.

"Will Union member give McManus his No 2 or will he vote for the Blueshirts?"

I intend to vote for the candidate of the left that gives the best chance of keeping the third seat away from FF. If on the eve of the election, I assess that Sinn Fein are on the rise that is where my no.1 will go with Labouir getting no 2. If not, Labour will get my no.1 and Sinn Fein my no.2

If you are truly interested, lets work at this and maybe we can bring all left people together to harmonise the vote and do whatever is necessary to get the third seat for a left candidate.

by T. R. Benson Thu Mar 22, 2007 09:05

Will someone please tell me is the Declan Bree that union member is accusing of undermining the Labour Party, the same Declan Bree that is the guest speaker at the Labour Party’s Connolly Festival this weekend
See the Labour Party website:
http://www.labour.ie/youth/news/index/20070313164750.html

Did I miss something?

by Sligo go Brea Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:31

Not quite sure what point your trying to make T.R. Are you involved in this farcical cycle of self promotion instigated by Bree or are you highlighting his hypocrisy by showing Bree is still active within Labour and still using its instruments for publicity purposes whilst he publicly attacks Labours Sligo/North Leitrim candidate, has continually posted here attacking Rabitte and Labours pact with FG and has tethered on the brink of announcing to run as an independent due to irreconcilable differences with Labour. The same Bree who has consistently and anonymous attacked anyone who does not agree with him or is still loyal to Labour (not just locally but in any capacity)

Everyone in Sligo Knows what Bree is doing in terms of trying to scupper McGarry. Just look at the threads here on Indymedia and the vicious enraged driven attacks on the man. Everyone knows that Bree is trying to turn this into a popularity contest in the event of him running and will run for purely ego-centred and selfish reasons. Everyone knows exactly where Brees so-called principles are on this one. Everyone knows his animosity with Labour is electioneering, proved indeed by his participation at a Labour function in the capacity of a Labour Cllr this very weekend. I’m sure the high profile nature of the event won’t be lost on Cllr Bree.

Bree has publicly aired his discontent within Labour, attacks the leadership at every given possibility, declared he will not run for Labour under Rabitte etc etc etc. How much proof do you need that Bree is trying to undermine Labour in Sligo.

Bree should have left the Party, not wait till he was passed over and then suddenly find his principles in retrospect. Because you can be damn sure, had Bree received the nomination he would have been more than happy to take it.

If as I said, if you are involved in this farcical self promotion then yes T.R, you have missed a hell of a lot.

by union member Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:43

Given the number of attacks on the Labour Party, the invitation to Bree is clear testimony of Labour's maturity. What a pity Bree can't reciprocate. And is there any chance that posters would stop using Connolly's name in the same post as Brees. Let Connolly rest in peace for God's sake.

My last post set out the arguements and concludes with a challange. Of course I don't expect Bree to agree to put his shoulder to the wheel to secure a left seat in Sligo for the simple reason that he is being asked to become a foot soldier for the cause and Bree would never do that. Which suggests that the only cause he ever had was himself. His capacity to do deals with right wingers in return for gifts merely confirms this. What Bree forgot was the old adage, "You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

T.R (or whoever) asks "Did I miss something?" Apparently. But not to worry, education is to hand.

by kevin c Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:46

This thread initially commenced as one dealing with Caoimhe Buckley speaking in Sligo.

You – Union member, butted in and out of the blue and you used the thread to launch an attack on Bree and went on about the number of people that were present at the meeting.

In your next contribution there is yet another frenzied attack on Bree whom you say has set out to damage the chances of McGarry winning a seat, therefore allowing the possibility of another 5 years of PD power !!

“Only Stalin behaved in such a callous way while masquerading as a socialist.” you say.

In your next posting you really begin to lose it saying “We are becoming an outright capitalist state, even further right than Bush, and this is happening by stealth while Bree sets out on his ego trip.. .and damages the prospect of a Labour seat.”

And you go on about Stalinist tactics, casting slurs, attempting to stifle debate etc. And you actually go as far as asking has Bree been bought!

In your next posting you say that it would be disastrous to vote for Bree as an Independent because he has little chance of winning.

In your next posting you say that for Bree to run in the election would be a deliberate attempt to prevent a left candidate winning. And he would be playing into the hands of Bertie Ahern and Mary Harney. !!

In the following posting you are still going on about the possibility of Bree splitting the left vote.

Today you are proclaiming that everyone in Sligo knows what Bree is doing in terms of trying to scupper McGarry. etc.

And all this despite the fact that Bree hasn’t even indicated that he will be standing as a candidate.

And then you deny having a phobia about Bree !!!

You will really have to tell us what Bree did to drive you to such a state.

You said in an earlier posting “I know all about Jimmy McGarry's lack of principles and I cringe to think that he was the only candidate in the area that those who know decided had the best chance of winning a seat”

And then you declare that you intend to give McGarry your No 1 vote. You really are strange.

Should Bree decide to run I fear that you may spoil your ballot paper - scratching out his image!!

by Union member Thu Mar 22, 2007 13:04

Boy what a nonsensical tirade. Bree is fixated with the notion that someone out there has a phobia about him. Get the message Bree, you are of no consquence on a personal level and your distracting onslaught is fooling no one.
The issues are clear. It was Bree who set out to attack in a cowardly way Labours candidate in Sligo and he did so out of sour grapes. My fear is that his antics may split the left vote here and result in FF being handed the third seat. He should accept the positon as it is and if he cannot bring himself to helping to secure a left seat here, he should have the dignity to keep silent.

by Sligo go Brea Thu Mar 22, 2007 13:15

"Today you are proclaiming that everyone in Sligo knows what Bree is doing in terms of trying to scupper McGarry. etc."

Union Member didn’t say this, I did.

Union member’s broader thinking in this matter is actually quite in tune with the national objective to get FF/PD out of office. You are the one advocating a voting pact in a constituency with only one seat available in spite of such pacts being denounced as counter-productive in many other constituencies (Collins/Smith for example in DSC).
At the very least this shows you have put a lot of thought into the possibility of Bree running and then ridicule others for doing the same simply because they reject your proposal to maximise the left vote. You then dismiss Union members call for solidarity by flatly ignoring it. Strange indeed.

You further avoid the points raised again by attacking the player, not the ball.

Have you nothing to say on the questions asked of Bree?
Is all you can offer a jumbled attempt to discredit Union Member in the hope the partisan reader will be distracted from those questions because you fear they could be damaging?

I have no doubt any partisan reader of this thread will know who really has the phobia.

by T.R. Benson Thu Mar 22, 2007 13:39

If Cllr Bree is doing all these nasty things to the Labour party why would the Labour Party be inviting him to be their guest speaker at their festival?

It seems that Union member most definitely has a phobia.

by Sligo go Brea Thu Mar 22, 2007 14:24

He was invited by Labour Youth.

But are you saying that all is rosy in the garden between Cllr bree and Labour again? In that case we must presume Cllr Bree will give full and public support of the Labour Parties chosen candidate in Sligo/North Leitrim in the run up to the election.

Thanks for clearing that up T.R.

by T.R. Benson Thu Mar 22, 2007 15:35

I haven’t a clue what’s happening in the garden. I am just highlighting the fact that for the past number of days Union member, who I assume is not a member of the Labour Party, has been in a frenzy attacking Bree and complaining about all the damage that he is doing to the Labour Party.

I ask the question, If Cllr Bree is doing all these nasty things to the Labour party why would the Labour Party be inviting him to be their guest speaker at their festival?

The Labour Party does not appear to have any problem with Cllr Bree. Its Union member who has the problem. God knows what Bree did to him!

by Sligo go Brea Thu Mar 22, 2007 16:11

T.R. lots of people have a problem with Bree, not just Union Member. And we could spend all day attacking the player as you seem intent on doing and get no-where.

But you did ask the question
“If Cllr Bree is doing all these nasty things to the Labour party why would the Labour Party be inviting him to be their guest speaker at their festival”

The Labour Party didn’t invite Bree. Labour Youth did. I had already told you that but you decided to ignore it.

The Labour party doesn’t have a problem with Bree insofar as Bree is incapable of causing them a problem despite his best efforts both on and off the record. Bree was overlooked for the party candidature. This damaged him politically and bruised his huge ego. He then decided that if he couldn’t be Labour candidate no-one could and launched venomous attacks on McGarry. All you need do is filter through indymedia threads relative to Sligo and you will clearly see Bree’s smear campaign against McGarry in all its principled heroic glory.

But tell me T.R. are you just padding out the thread with waffle to create a physical distance between the criticisms of Bree posted previously. You asked a question that had already been answered and refused to engage the questions asked of Bree and ignore the criticisms made of him as if they are not serious or somehow relevant. This proves you are only concerned with flinging as much mud as possible at critics of Bree and are incapable of debating the issues openly and honestly.

Sad.

by Union member Thu Mar 22, 2007 16:19

If it smells like backpedalling and it looks like back pedalling then it is back pedalling. But if this puts an end to the phoney war and allows us all to concentrate on getting this government out, well and good.
As for the end remark " God knows what Bree did to him!" you can't resist personalising can you. You did nothing to me Bree, it's what you were about to do to Sligo that attracted my attention.
Now lets see some of those skills learned in far off Moscow put to work helping to get a left candidate into the third seat here in Sligo.

by T.R. Benson Thu Mar 22, 2007 18:05

If the Labour Party doesn’t have a problem with Bree, why has Union member (who is not a member of Labour) been in a frenzy attacking him?

And now Erin go brea, who apparently is not a member of the Labour Party, is also giving out about Bree because he “launched a venomous attacks on McGarry.”

Where and when was this venomous attack launched? I must have missed it. The only venomous attacks I have come across is Union member and co attacking Bree.

Union member said in an earlier posting “I know all about Jimmy McGarry's lack of principles and I cringe to think that he was the only candidate in the area that those who know decided had the best chance of winning a seat”
If Bree made such a comment it could be described as an attack on McGarry. But it was Union member who made the comment.

And then Union member declared that he was going to give McGarry his No 1 vote.

I would like to know what Bree did to put Union member in such a state.

The only people that Bree would have antagonised in recent years would be particular speculators connected with both FF and FG amongst others..

by kevin c Thu Mar 22, 2007 18:41

Earlier Union member said “I have tried to highlight Bree's dangerous and selfish campaign against Labour in an effort to prevent it damaging the prospect of a Labour seat.”

In another post he attacks Bree and says Brees “motives are simply to thwart the chances of a Labour seat.”

And now we discover that Union member is not even a member of the Labour Party and we also learn that Declan Bree has been invited by Labour to be a guest speaker at their festival this coming weekend.

This surely begs the question as to Union members motives.

by Reality Check Thu Mar 22, 2007 19:36

Union member, you'll only get yourself dizzy trying to engage bree in a debate he spins so much. I see he is still dodging criticism and questions and allowing his massively blinkered ego to assume he can do so by sticking his ears in his fingers and screaming "I'm a principled socialist, I'm a principled socialist" as load as he can. In Declans world he has no critics which is why he is so utterly incapable of answering questions and engaging in genuine debate.

Watch now as he comes back with more guff, he is a master at spewing words in volume but actually saying nothing.

by Union member Thu Mar 22, 2007 19:48

TR Benson says "If the Labour Party doesn’t have a problem with Bree, why has Union member (who is not a member of Labour) been in a frenzy attacking him?"

If Labour have no problem with Bree, why was another candidate headhunted to run in the GE?
Is it required that a person must belong to a political party to comment on Indymedia? Stalinism rearing it's head again?. And a "frenzy" attack. You clearly have lived a very sheltered life if you consider the foregoing frenzied. This is persecution complex waffle.

Next he states "Union member said in an earlier posting "“I know all about Jimmy McGarry's lack of principles and I cringe to think that he was the only candidate in the area that those who know decided had the best chance of winning a seat”" If Bree made such a comment it could be described as an attack on McGarry. But it was Union member who made the comment. And then Union member declared that he was going to give McGarry his No 1 vote."

I am very familiar with the history of J McGarry and will not go behind anyones back to state that I am very disappointed that Labour had not a better candidate to run. That is a long way from the disparaging name calling that Bree initiated from behind various pseudonyms. I have already outlined clearly what way I intend to vote and if I decide a vote for Labour is the best option to get rid of the sitting government, then Labour will get my No.1

Next the boring "I would like to know what Bree did to put Union member in such a state"

The Moscow strategy does appear to be rather limited so I'll pass on this one on this occasion.

And TR finishes with a flourish "The only people that Bree would have antagonised in recent years would be particular speculators connected with both FF and FG amongst others."

A saunter around Sligo at present will quickly indicate that FF/FG speculators are having a field day. Enough said.

Kevin C seems also to be of the view that memebrship of the Labour Party is required to comment
"And now we discover that Union member is not even a member of the Labour Party" Wow revelation. You haven't a clue if I'm a member or not but you seem to believe that somehow non-membership would render me forbidden to speak. As this tread expands we are beginning to see the very sound reasons that Labour had to get another candidate here in Sligo. There is no room for dictators.

And finally we are again informed that "Declan Bree has been invited by Labour to be a guest speaker at their festival this coming weekend"

As I previouslly said, this speaks volumes for the maturity and the adherence to core principles by the Labour Party.

As for "Union members motives", I will be amazed if their is anyone outside of Bree's little circle who has any difficulty working that out. Once again, can we come together and work to win the third seat for a candidate of the left? Much more impiortant that this ongoing verbal gymnastics

by kevin c Thu Mar 22, 2007 21:44

Union member said in an earlier posting “I know all about Jimmy McGarry's lack of principles and I cringe to think that he was the only candidate in the area that those who know decided had the best chance of winning a seat”

And now Union member informs us that McGarry was headhunted by the Labour Party to run in the general election!!

What can I say? No doubt Bertie, Harney and Co are shaking in their shoes

by Union member Fri Mar 23, 2007 07:58

Kevin C can you not see the obvious that the fact that McGarry was headhunted speaks volumes about Bree. As regards Bertie and co shaking in their boots, with enemies like Bree in the constituency stabbing the Labour candidate in the back at ever hands turn, they can sleep tight.
Once again I call on all those truly interested in getting this government out to work together to get a left candidate elected. That's all that matters. Lets put the ego's aside for a while.

by Ramos Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:26

So you are calling for people to support MacManus as he is the only Left Candidate declared? Is that right Union Member?

by Sligo go Brea Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:34

Talk about clinging on by your finger nails. Read the Thread, stop asking questions that have already been answered.

This really is fooling no-one declan.

by Sligo go Brea Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:41

Is that you unequivocally announcing your not going to run or are you simply stating that is how it stands at present in the absences of any statement of intent in that regard.
I love how you keep dragging MacManus into this as well, I’m sure he’ll be delighted your doing a spot of cyber-canvassing for him, in-between the veiled attacks on his record as a cllr of course.

Reality Check was right, ‘debating’ you is a dizzying unending spiral of irrelevancy.

by TP Fri Mar 23, 2007 17:53

I see that Union Member says that the labour party invitation to have Bree speak at the Connolly Festival speaks volumes for the maturity and the adherence to core principles by the Labour Party.

I have looked at the Connolly Festival programme.

http://www.labour.ie/youth/news/index/20070313164750.html

I see that bree is speaking on ‘Fighting for Travellers Rights’

Given McGarry’s disgraceful record on travellers rights Labour could hardly invite him as the guest speaker

by Union member Sat Mar 24, 2007 08:03

The gutter tactic re-emerges. The fact is that the record of Sligo County Council and Sligo Borough Council regardingTravellers rights is deplorable and needless to point out, Bree is a long standing member of both. The record of FF is particularly bad in this regard so while Bree is addressing the Connolly festival perhaps he will explain why he is in a pact with FF on both Councills.
The Connolly festival is organised by Labour Youth, no doubt the organisation committee are young and starry eyed. Maybe someone will bring this thread to their attention and they can get Bree to answer the few questions that he repeatedly ducks. And chief among them must be to explain why, not only will he not be voting for the Labour candidate in the next GE, he is behind an orchastrated campaign against the Labour candidate.
So enough of the smart arse jeering. Bree has a lot of explaining to do.

by f small sligo Sat Mar 24, 2007 19:04

Maybe union member would like to explain why mc garry would not be ask to speak about travellers rights

by TP Sat Mar 24, 2007 19:44

I see that Declan Bree was one of the speakers invited to address the Irish Anti-War Movements national demonstration at Citywest today – along with Richard Boyd Barrett, Robert Ballagh, Joe Higgins T.D., Cllr Brid Smith, Mary Coughlan, Senator David Norris etc. See well taken photo images at http://www.indymedia.ie/article/81644

Given McGarrys disgraceful record in support of US troops using Shannon Airport, the Anti-War Movement could hardly have invited him as a guest speaker.

Am I sounding repetitive? Or is it just the case that McGarry is opposed to everything the Labour movement is supposed to stand for!

by Reality Check Sat Mar 24, 2007 20:19

Yes Declan, you drawing attention to any positive PR of yourself and your shameless self promotion is getting very very repetitive.

All the good you achieved today has been undone by your grating need to publicise your involvement in the protest. Nobody else who attented today was so desperate for credibilty that they needed to come on indymedia and post a link to pictures of their participation.

The egotism at work here is mind-boggling, not to mention pathetic. I wonder what Joe will think?

by Sligo go Brea Sun Mar 25, 2007 00:24

I see Cllr Bree can fleet between activist and establishment accommodator with the best of them.

I wonder why he didn’t pull out of this event in protest of the US military’s use of Shannon Airport when he was mayor of Sligo and really use his high profile position to make a high profile statement of his so-called socialist beliefs then.

See link below, scroll down just over half way and witness hypocrisy in action. Its the one on the right where we see a more than compliant Cllr Bree posing delightfully with Mr. Tom Cafferkey (Lotus Automation Group), An Taoiseach Bertie Ahern TD, Mr. Louis Doherty (Chamber President), and Mr. Stephen Rundle
(Sligo Business Person of the Year)

http://www.sligochamber.com/events05.asp

Strange company for a so-called socialist to be keeping.

by f small sligo - not pal of d bree Sun Mar 25, 2007 08:20

Again I ask why mc garry would not be invited to speak on travellers rights If your not going to gave a anwser get of the line

by Check reality Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:11

As someone who knows very little about Sligo politics, I can't say "reality check" is impressing me very much. He/she seems to be completely obsessed with Declan Bree, and although he/she repeatedly attacks Bree for not being left-wing enough, he/she now seems happy to join forces on this thread with people who support the ex-FG Labour candidate with a lousy right-wing record.

And before the usual ranting about how I'm actually Declan Bree posting under another pseudonym, I've never even set foot in Sligo, so spare me the waffle. This row got very boring a long long time ago and I'd be happy if ye all took your grievances off somewhere else instead of clogging up Indymedia with this bile

by Lefty Sun Mar 25, 2007 14:59

Here hear!!.............enough of this small town,petty and narrow minded shite.No matter what the original thread starts as,ther are a number of political troglidites who keep banging the same ol' drums.Enough is enough ! Say something new or just f**k off back to your caves!

by Union member Sun Mar 25, 2007 15:41

It is very sad to see that the need to change the government ranks so low in the priorities of Bree and his friend, which confirms that this is all about an ego that cannot accept that he has failed and is compromised and no longer can get out the left vote in the constituency. Hence the decision to opt for another candidate for the GE. If Bree had the socialists principles that he claims he has, he would put his support behind the candidate of the left so as to ensure that parties of the left will have a say in the next administration. Sorry to see that that aspiration is regarded as not very important but I think this thread has been very useful in exposing Bree for what he is-a Me Feiner.
( P.S. very unusal indeed to see someone who claims to have never put a foot in Sligo using "ye" which is the archaic form of the pronoun "you" and is almost exclusively only still in common currancy in Sligo)

by Check reality Sun Mar 25, 2007 17:34

Ok, that's all the final proof we need that "union member" is completely out of touch with reality. You're so consumed by your obsession with Declan Bree, you can't imagine that there could be anyone on earth who doesn't share your pathological loathing for the man, and therefore anyone who questions your relentless campaign of abuse must be Declan Bree himself. "Ye" is used up and down and around the island of Ireland by people who want to express the second person plural. English being more impoverished than say French, we don't have a word like "vous", so the resourceful Irish have come up with "ye".

But having previously addressed all the people who have clogged up Indymedia with Bree-related tirades for the last few months, I'd now like to urge "union member" in particular - I'd like YOU to leave us all in peace. This thread began with a report of a meeting addressed by Caoimhe Butterly, that I was mildly curious to hear about, but it was immediately hijacked by you to continue with a personalised vendetta that you've already hawked around god knows how many threads. Enough I say, enough! Begone! This is meant to be a NEWS site, it wasn't created for you to rant about people you dislike

by kevin c Sun Mar 25, 2007 17:35

TP has pointed out that while Bree speaks on the issue of Traveller Rights, the official labour candidate McGarry is unable to do so because of his disgraceful record on the issue

TP has pointed out that while Bree speaks out against the US war in Iraq and against US troops using Shannon, the official labour candidate McGarry is unable to do so because he support US troops using Shannon

He could have gone to on point out how McGarry voted for service charges when the rest of the labour party in Sligo was out campaigning against them. He could have pointed out how McGarry voted for privatisation of the service despite labour opposition to privatisation….

And Union member then asks why Labour Youth have not asked Bree to explain why he will not be voting for McGarry in the forthcoming general election !!!

What self respecting voter left of centre could vote for McGarry?

As Union member himself said in an earlier posting “I know all about Jimmy McGarry's lack of principles and I cringe to think that he was the only candidate in the area that those who know decided had the best chance of winning a seat”

by T.R. Benson Sun Mar 25, 2007 19:26

Sligo go Brea or is it Union member? is now getting excited because Bree during his term as Mayor, was photographed in the company of Bertie Ahern - and he can even direct us to the photo’s (I figure he keeps some of Bree’s photos on his wall)

Of course the Mayor should not have met the Taoiseach when he came to Sligo! Nor should he have met with the RC bishop given the sordid activities of numerous catholic priests over the years, nor should he have met with Mary Harney given her despicable role in government, nor should he have met with unionist councillors given the way they have treated the nationalist minority down the years, not should he have met with the representatives of Glasgow Celtic given the clubs association with sectarianism down the years, not should he have……. the list is endless…. nor should he have met with the FF and FG councillors on his own council, given their record.

Isn’t really odd that a Mayor would be meeting people like this

by Union member Sun Mar 25, 2007 19:32

I'm going nowhere Declan. Everytime you pop up to launch your cowardly attacks on Sligo Labour, I will challange you. You have many questions to answer and as is always the case when the crunch comes you resort to name calling and vitriol. if you can't take it,don't dish it out.

by Sheila Sun Mar 25, 2007 20:57

What sectarianism has Celtic being associated with TR? I think you are mixing them up with Glasgow rangers.

by Aodan Mc Sun Mar 25, 2007 21:00

TP says that McGarry has a disgraceful record on travellers rights. He also criticises McGarry for supporting the US in Iraq and for saying that US troops should be allowed to use Shannon Airport.

He also criticises McGarry because he supported service charges and privatisation and opposed labour policy on these issue.

Sligo go Brea and Union member hate Bree and support McGarry and are complaining about the attack on McGarry despite the fact that Union member himself said “I know all about Jimmy McGarry's lack of principles and I cringe to think that he was the only candidate in the area that those who know decided had the best chance of winning a seat”

So now we all know where both sides stand. Or do we?

by Mickey Mac Sun Mar 25, 2007 21:13

Theres damn all difference between Bree and McGarry. Both of them are opportunist party hopping careerists that have no credibility whatsoever. Its a choice between tweedle Jim and Tweedle Bree.

by SP Member Sun Mar 25, 2007 21:28

Are you saying that Bree it was not being hypocritical in that he adopted a public stance criticising Shannons use by the US military but extended a hearty welcome to the very man who allowed Shannon to be abused at a social event hosted by capitalists.

A socialist is a socialist is a socialist. No expediency, no tailoring political outlook to maximise electoral success, just socialism. The fact that these criticisms fly straight over the head of Bree here illustrates perfectly the arrogance of the man. He attacks his critics viciously as is standard Stalinist tactics, does not take that criticism on board and judge its relevance on merit. He has just been too long shouting at the top of his voice that he is a socialist to even recognise he has migrated toward the centre and become a bourgeois chatterer as is common with all failed revolutionaries.

With regard the long list of people who a mayor should or should not meet. That should be determined by the principles of the individual who is mayor. It is for this reason that men or women of uncompromising principles are rarely if ever put into positions such as mayorships where those principles might embarrass the establishment.

I’m familiar with Bree, have watched him dither around the periphery of many worthy campaigns both on points of principle but also most tellingly for publicity purposes. Publicity hunting can be forgiven if the intent is there and the support genuine but Bree compromised himself in Labour and sold out as a TD. He describes himself as anti establishment yet embraced a symbol of that establishment by accepting the chain of office. This is hypocrisy and needs to be illustrated. He can say it was his due for 30 yrs of service but that is a cop out. There is no statute of limitations on principles.

Bree describes himself both on and off the record as a genuine hard left socialist, set up his own website calling himself such and regularly uses self publicity to appear as left wing as he possibly can. As has been said before, if he came clean as a left leaning centrist as clearly demonstrated by his voting record in the Dail and elsewhere then there would be no problem. As long as he keeps trumpeting himself as more left than Marx then there will be those who will be there to remind him otherwise.

This doesn’t look like a hang up with Bree to me, just a hang up with dishonest charlatans.

by Ann Smith Sun Mar 25, 2007 21:38

I am sorry but anyone like Bree that can support and vote for the disgraceful Tax Amnesty and then continue to defend doing so are beneath contempt and not fit to be described as Socialist.

by kevin c Mon Mar 26, 2007 09:54

A socialist is a socialist is a socialist says Union member “I’m familiar with Bree. He describes himself as anti establishment yet embraced a symbol of that establishment by accepting the chain of office.”

Well said Union member. Bree also got himself elected to the County Council and to the Western Health Board and to the local policing committee etc etc - all symbols and parts of the establishment. A socialist becoming Mayor!!! Marx would be turning in his grave.

by nonlabour Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:11

Union member/sp member/ Sligo go Brea, have you noting to say about jimmy mc garrys latest deal with fianna fail.
He not only joined with fianna fail in voting to impose a huge increase on water charges, he used his casting vote as chairman of the council to impose the charges. and then he goes public and describs himself as the farmers friend. The labour party can be proud of jimmy mcgarry.

by Reality check Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:16

Kevin, when quoting it is customary to first quote correctly and secondly attribute that quote to the right person.

Union member didn’t say that, SP member did.

SP member also didn’t say “I’m familiar with Bree. He describes himself as anti establishment yet embraced a symbol of that establishment by accepting the chain of office.”
He said “I’m familiar with Bree, have watched him dither around the periphery of many worthy campaigns both on points of principle but also most tellingly for publicity purposes.”

When putting words in other peoples mouth would you not at least have the decency to place them in the correct order.

As for the quip about Marx, not only is he turning I'd imagine its developed into quite a spin, something Bree would be most familiar with.

by Reality check Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:20

"Union member/sp member/ Sligo go Brea, have you noting to say about jimmy mc garrys latest deal with fianna fail"

Have you nothing to say about Brees deal with FF? Swings and roundabouts.

by Check reality Mon Mar 26, 2007 14:37

As I predicted, "union member/sligo go brea/whoever" is incapable of getting his/her head around the idea that I have nothing to do with Declan Bree. I'm not interested in getting involved in the endless boring rows about what Bree did or didn't do. It's all unbelievably tiresome. The posters here are apparently so vain and so fanatical they can't imagine that there might be people who don't find the rows in Sligo Labour fascinating. Well get it into your heads lads - nobody cares, not one bit.

I directed my comment at "union member" (who is obviously the same person as "sligo go brea" and god knows who else) because he/she hijacked a thread about Caoimhe Butterly's meeting in Sligo, which was mildly interesting, so he/she could carry on with the same fanatical, storm-in-a-teacup row that's been clogging up Indymedia on other threads for months. I'd say the same thing to supporters of Declan Bree though - this all got very boring a long time ago. If Bree was going to leave Labour and run as a candidate he surely should have done it ages ago. Nobody outside Sligo Labour cares about this row anymore. Let it go. Give us all a break. Find something else to do. Nobody cares

by Reality check Mon Mar 26, 2007 15:04

Union member is Sligo go Brea and god knows who else? How on earth did you ‘obviously’ come to that asinine conclusion? Do we add amateur Sherlock Holmes enthusiast to the charge of impostors and sock puppetry?

The problem with your call for Silence is that it is belied by the slight biast tinge toward Bree in your last post. Criticisms of Union Member et al can be quite easily and reasonably laid right back at Bree yet you choose not to. An impartial observer you are not, so as I said before stuff your platitudes. If you don’t want to read anything about Bree, don’t, nobodies asking you to. The fact you find all this boring is of no concern to me or anyone. I have no idea who you are and care even less. You butted in on this thread so politely….BUTT OUT!

by Check reality Mon Mar 26, 2007 15:26

Yup, I'm now convinced that "reality check" is the same person as "union member" and "sligo go brea" and god knows how many other sock puppets for the same fanatic on this thread. Giveaway sign being his/her insistence that anyone who posts on any thread challenging his/her views in any way must be Declan Bree himself.

When it's pointed out that nobody cares about this petty little row, he/she reacts by shrieking about "censorship" and "arrogance". Nobody cares, nobody cares one bit, stop hijacking threads that are about something completely different so you can carry on with the same boring row, nobody gives a damn, just give it a rest and stop clogging up indymedia with this stuff

by Union member Mon Mar 26, 2007 17:44

Just to remind Check Reality is was Bree who initially abused Indymedia by using it to launch a cowardly attack on Sligo Labour and tried to set himself up as the only person in the region with the credentials to carry the Socialist cause. The truth is that he has as many questions to answer as McGarry and worse, he is attempting to defy the democratic decsion of Sligo Labour regarding the choice of candidate for the GE.

Regarding your statement, "" I'm now convinced that "reality check" is the same person as "union member" and "sligo go brea" and god knows how many other sock puppets"", quite simply this is wishful thinking and wrong and the editors of Indymedia know that.
Regarding your comment that, " Nobody cares, nobody cares one bit", as I have previously stated, given the appalling prospect for the country should the present government be returned to power, it is of great importance that every possible seat that can be taken from the government is so taken. The attack by Bree on Sligo Labour could result in the third seat being handed to FF.
With regard to the usual "go away" plea, I will,if Bree stops working against the Labour candidate in my constituency, we have enough Quislings to deal with.

by Sligo go Brea Mon Mar 26, 2007 18:11

‘Check reality,’ you seem to care about this, you seem to give a damn. You can’t keep away from the thread.

If no-one cares, why are you bothering to post at all with your assumptions that I am ‘reality check’ and Bree is ‘Kevin c’ and ‘TR Benson’ and ‘God knows how many other sock puppets’ when no-one is reading? Strange behaviour indeed.

As for ‘giveaway signs’, is the irony not lost on you that your reasoning can be thrown right back at you. An absurd, lazy and rushed hypothesis. But I keep forgetting, nobody cares, nobodies reading, we’re arguing over nothing in a spectator-less forum that you somehow assume you speak for.

Speaking of which, this thread isn’t ‘clogging up’ Indymedia. People have to physically click on this or any other thread relevant to Bree to read it (something you can’t prevent yourself from doing despite you saying how ‘boring’ you find all this) they don’t magically appear when you open up the web-page nor do they contaminate indiscriminate threads, disturbing other posters and causing annoyance. The only person annoyed, apart from your-self, is Bree, because he cannot abuse Indymedia anymore, posting all sorts of shite about himself without being challenged. Why do you have such a problem with the Cllr being called out on these issues that are actually very important to the voters of Sligo? Your assumptions that no-one cares is extremely puzzling in that regard.

But thanks for assuming to talk for not only indymedia patrons but also everyone in Sligo who is concerned with politics locally. Oh but that’s right, nobody in Sligo is reading according to you because nobody cares. I wonder for whose benefit you are pointing that out for. The people who consider Bree a farce or Bree and his tiny band of muppets who post dogmatically in his defence.

You can keep posting away ‘Check reality’ after all, according to yourself, nobody cares what you have to say, least of all me.

by Check reality Tue Mar 27, 2007 09:34

Yeah, that's right, nobody cares, so take your petty little grievances elsewhere, your shrieking has gone on far too long and it's time to call it a day. Begone all of you, begone! You've hijacked too many threads with your rantings. I'll repeat again - this was a thread about a meeting with Caoimhe Butterly, that I was curious to read about, before it was hijacked by "union member" with his petty little grudges. I've had to post several times because when I pointed this out, I was abused and denounced and accused of being Declan Bree and told that I was guilty of "unparalleled arrogance" for simply pointing out the painful truth to this legion of sock puppets - nobody cares about this boring little row anymore, so give it a rest

by P.K Lynch Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:07

Honestly, has the right to choose escaped you? If you find this to be 'boring stuff', why are you reading it?

I’m finding this to be quite fascinating, nor has it interrupted my enjoyment of other threads on other topics. As S go B pointed out about, I just click on the link I want to read or comment on. As for the thread bring 'hi-jacked', there are many threads that start off on one topic and then expand into other lines of debate. There is absolutely nothing unique about that here.

You say you are aware of it on other threads? How did you become aware of it? The chances of you just stumbling across all these threads that are critical of Bree are quite remote, especially since they are usually threads related to Sligo and you have already admitted you are someone who knows very little about Sligo politics. For someone who has never set foot in the place you seem to have an exaggerated interest in threads relating to the area.

You can’t even stay away from this thread despite it boring you to tears! I think I’ll take your slant on all this with a pinch of salt. It’s been my experience that people who are bored with something tend to loose interest, walk away and generally avoid coming into contact with it again. Not you, you’re like a moth to a flame with this thread, parroting how boring it is and of how little interest it is to anyone.

Rubbish, I can assure you it is of great interest to the people of Sligo.

by kevin c Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:15

Who said the ‘Blessed Trinity’ didn’t exist?

Here on Indymedia we have a case where three people are actually one:
Union member/Sligo go Brea/Reality Check . Does this count as a miracle of sorts?

The question anyone would ask having read the postings on this thread is what did Bree do to drive the ‘Trinity’ into such a frenzied state? (Please don’t treat us like fools and tell us again it’s because Bree does not support McGarry)

Why the phobia about Bree?

by P.K Lynch Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:38

I thought you werent supposed to care? Well Kevin, you seem to be another one that is at odds with 'check reality's' suggestion that this is boring and of no interest to anyone.

But on your post, why is it necessary for Bree to have done anything to these three. Can people not dislike a public figure as a matter of political objection and then debate those differences or point out any shortcomings of that public representative in any medium afforded them (such as indymedia).

Why do you insist that Bree has personally agrieved these people? Is he somehow differen from every other politician in the world in that he doesnt nor shouldnt have his critics. If he cant stand up to questioning, then he really is in the wrong job. If Bree is acting the Bollock then we have a right to know. If he's not then its up to him to prove otherwise. Nature of the game my son. He's a big boy Kevin, he doesnt need you to speak on his behalf.

by Union member Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:41

The people of Sligo are greatly interested in what is happening in the constituency and if Bree decides to carry his spoilt brat antics further and run as an independent, he will soon find out at the door steps what the majority of people think of his ego fuelled attempts to sabotage a left candidate winning a seat.His attack on Sligo Labour has been misjudged and his attempts to distance himself from it now are only adding insult to injury. And his attempts to deny that he is not posting here are pathetic. The games up-the people of Sligo are reading you like a book.

by d gillen sligo - 9 to 5 er Tue Mar 27, 2007 19:08

In the name of god and every thing good about the left in this country dont call JIMMY MC GARRY a left candidate. Stop fooling yourself and open your eyes !

by Denis Haran Tue Mar 27, 2007 19:12

Gilly is right. McGarry is not a Left Candidate, no matter how much any one tries to spin it. The only Left candidate in the race at the minute is MacManus.

by union member Tue Mar 27, 2007 19:41

The fact is that McGarry is now a member of the Labour Party and is bound to support their manifesto and policies which whether Gilly or Dinny like it or not are left policies. The tactic of trying to suggest that McGarry, if elected, could pursue a right wing agenda is clap trap and is simply part of Bree's personalised attack on McGarry because McGarry got the nomination and he did not. And to repeat again, it is of vital importance that the sitting government, which has taken this country so far to the right that we read of people dying because they had not got the money to buy private Health Insurance, is removed from office. That is all that counts now.This ego fuelled vandetta that could result in the third seat being handed to FF must stop. Decency, if nothing else demands it.

by Brian Kelly Tue Mar 27, 2007 19:53

Bree, MacManus, McGarry, they are all the bloody same, it’s what a vote for each one represents in the bigger picture that important. Of the 3 the only one with a realistic chance is MacManus. Any vote for either McGarry or Bree will damage MacManus. It’s really that simple. No amount of abuse, personal score settling, shyte talk about pacts or any other fop will change that reality.

Interesting article in the weekender today which identified Sligo/Leitrim as a pivotal constituency in determining the next government. I really don’t care who the biggest opportunist between these three is, I don’t care who voted for what in the past. The fucking PDs need to go along with their partners in crime FF. To do that it’s vital FF don’t get the third seat. Forget Bree, Forget McGarry they are only concerned with bloody one-upmanship at this stage. Get that third seat into SF’s hands and away from FF. Vote MacManus No1, do what you will with your transfers they won’t mean anything in this constituency the way its been divided up.

http://www.sligoweekender.ie/news/story.asp?j=32316&cat...=news

by d gillen sligo Tue Mar 27, 2007 19:53

Mcgarry is only interest in self inrichment. I grow up with him. how long do you know him?

by Brian Kelly Tue Mar 27, 2007 20:10

Not so. McGarry won't have anywhere near the numbers to get a Quota. It has to be MacManus. The message needs to go out that voting for Bree(if he runs) or McGarry will only help default the seat into FFs hands.

SF will be sitting in the executive on May 8th, just 2 weeks before the GE in the 26. They will be on a pre-election surge that could really help Sean. If you vote for McGarry it will be a meaningless show of support in a local Labour Party row. Same for those who vote for Bree. Vote Sean MacManus No1, put all that local in-fighting to one side.

Imagine if it came down to that last seat and it went to FF and it gave them the numbers to go back into Government.

Vote Sean No1 and do what you want after that. Bree and Macgarry can count transfers and settle their score that way.

by Union member Wed Mar 28, 2007 08:30

Brian,there is no indication that Sinn Fein can enter government. The danger is that the opposition will become scattered. Labour are offering an alternative government. Obviously they need the numbers to achieve this. I still maintain that the priority is to get the present neo-con government out . Is a vote for Labour not the safest option?

by kevin c Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:03

Union members says “The fact is that McGarry is now a member of the Labour Party and is bound to support their manifesto and policies”

I would ask is this the same McGarry that voted against the Travellers Accommodation Programme and who voted to impose increased water charges on farmers? Hardly Labour Party policies?

But what else could you expect from McGarry? As Union member himself said in an earlier posting: “I know all about Jimmy McGarry's lack of principles and I cringe to think that he was the only candidate in the area that those who know decided had the best chance of winning a seat”

If Bree is not standing I will be voting for McManus. McGarry is no more left wing the Mary Harney