Israel's dirty deeds in Palestine

by Completely Unmanageable Sat Jul 01, 2006 09:16

For once, a western newscaster puts it up to the Israeli government like they deserve:

clip:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oS2ESHKhBQY

by Completely Unmanageable Sat Jul 01, 2006 09:40

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D539C2F4-AFC1-46...9.htm

Excellent review of Spielberg's film, whose core message seems even more apposite given current events: Israel's violent 'revenge' attacks are making things worse. Of course 'revenge' has nothing to do with what is happening in Gaza now - this latest round of Israeli aggression was unprovoked.

by Outstanding Sat Jul 01, 2006 21:28

Allow the Palestinians not to have their sovereignity breached by the Israelis anytime they choose to cross the border with their Tanks onto Palestinian territory. Shame on our Politicians for not even raising a single question about this in the UN.

by righteous pragmatist Mon Jul 03, 2006 13:39

If Palestinians launch terrorist attacks within the Israel from their havens in Gaza and the West Bank the surely the Israelis have the right to attack the terrorist masterminds who have been elected into power by the Palestinians?
The Israeli soldier who is being held by the Palestinians was captured after Palestinians crossed the Israeli border.
The Palestinians say he is a POW and are demanding that Israel release Palestinians held in Israeli jails.
But these imprisoned Palestinians involved in planning and committed terrorist offences against the Israeli people.
Israel has every right to defend itself and to force the Palestinians to release the Israeli soldier.
Palestinian "sovereignty" deserves nothing but contempt.
Palestine is a nation ruled by terrorists elected by people who seek end the "occupation."
For Palestinians the "occupation" means the entire state of Israel not just in Gaza or the West Bank.
The goal of Hamas et al is to destroy Israel and commit mass murder of Jews.
After that they want to spread Islamic fundementalist terror throughout the Middle East in order to establish a Caliphate.
Palestinians share the same ideology as the so-called insurgency in Iraq, they have the same ideology as the Taliban and the same goals as Al-Qaida - the end of Western democracy, freedom and tolerance.
There is only solution and that is to defeat these savages.

by The Cat Mon Jul 03, 2006 13:56

Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz has approved the opening of the Karni crossing for four days to facilitate the passing of 150 trucks per day in order to give urgent humanitarian aid to the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. It has also been decided to open the fuel depot at Nahal Oz in order to transfer fuel and diesel oil.

Another dirty deed?

by pat c Mon Jul 03, 2006 14:51

Bombing Palestinian schools and hospitals, the mass murder of children by artillery and missile, all carried out ny the IDF. Are these not acts of terrorism?

When are members of the IDF ever going to be charged with these crimes? Bombing the ifrastructure of Gaza as the IDF have done is collective punishment of a population. That is a War Criome.

by geoff Thu Jul 06, 2006 08:25

the israelis moved out of Gaza and forcibly got rid of the settlers. The seizure of Palestinian land and building of settlements always pissed me off. So now, Israel, by pulling out of Gaza, did, in my view, the right thing. And what do Hamas militants do? Fire rockets, and kidnap a soldier! Dumb, not rational, completly stupid. Everyone knows that if onhe so much snezzes at Israeli, they'll get hammered. Why did Hamas attack the soldiers and kidnap one, and why have they been firing rockets AFTER the pullout?

Getting slightly exasperated here.

by The Cat Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:35 http://thecatinthehats.spaces.msn.com

A stated aim of Hamas is the overthrowal of the Israeli state and the formation of a new Palestine. This is why they continued with their rocket campaign. The use of soldiers as hostages is often used here in the Middle East, and Hezbollah have recently restated their aim of capturing another IDF soldier. They attempted to do so on 21 Nov 06, and 4 of their own were killed in the attempt. These people do not consider the humanitarian implications of their actions, they are in a state of war.

by Cormac Eile Thu Jul 06, 2006 15:48

Can one of you pro-Israelis explain to me exactly why you think that Israel as a state should exist?

1. It was founded by the British Empire
2. The territory was stolen from the inhabitants, who were pushed off their hereditary land
3. It expanded it's territory through war
4. It consistently pressures the remaining Palestinian people, by restricting movement, commerce, and access to water (This is a form of genocide, as the intent is to remove an entire people from their land through murder and making normal life impossible).
5. It constantly bombs and fires discriminately and indiscriminately at civilians, including women and children
6. It has consistently rejected UN resolutions
7. It was one of Apartheid South Africa's staunchest allies
8. It requires people of different ethnic backgrounds to have different license plates on their cars. (There can only one reason for this). If this isn't a modern equivalent of a yellow star I don't know what is.
9. It is walling a population into an area, a method last seen in WW2 Warsaw, when the Nazis walled in the jews, in a horrific prelude to the final solution.
10. When one talks of Israel, one is not talking of all jewish people, there are plenty of jews who oppose Israel.
11. Israel, under Sharon, and while he was running his concentration camps in Lebanon, kidnapped and murdered two Irish soldiers who were on UN peacekeeping duties. They still haven't returned the bodies. This was an act of war on Ireland, and on the world, as our soldiers represented the UN. Israel has never accounted for this action.
12. Israel regularly shelled Irish UN positions. I know this, because my uncles and cousins were there. There was never any truth to Israeli claims that rockets were fired from near UN positions when our soldiers were shelled by Israel. The truth was that Israel wished to intimidate UN peacekeepers.
13. A state that predicates citizenship based on one's religion is a failed state, and cannot claim to be a modern democracy. Such states should not exist. In making this statement I refer to all such religious states, Islamic and Christian states included. So for example, I understand that Denmark has an established church, funded from taxation. This is not consistent with democratic principle. Neither is the fabric of the Israeli fascist state.

There is no defence of the government or the state of Israel.

I do accept that Israeli citizens are there to stay. What is required is the abandonment of the state of Israel, and abandonment of palestinian ambition for a return to their pre-Israel status. A new constitution and state is required to which both can be loyal. This can only occur if religion and ethnicities are removed from the political sphere.

by The Dog Thu Jul 06, 2006 17:30

I think you mean "ethnic cleansing", not genocide.

by Arthur Kennedy Thu Jul 06, 2006 20:20

"I think you mean "ethnic cleansing", not genocide."

Ethnic cleansing is what Kuwait did to the Palestinians in 1991.
Genocide is what the Jordanians did to the palestinians during Black September.
War is what's going on between Israel and the "palestinians". In a war, both sides get to shoot.

If you read the Hamas Charter, you will discover that they don't consider peace to be an option.

by Cormac Eile Thu Jul 06, 2006 20:45

Arthur, look up the definition of Genocide on wikipedia, and see the associated quotes from Raphael Lemkin, the brave jewish scholar of genius who fought long and hard to have genocide defined and laws passed against it.

Genocide isn't always the mass and industrial murder of a people.

What Israel is doing is certainly recognisable as genocide under a, b, c, and d in the excerpt from Wikipedia below:

In the wake of the Nazi perpetrated Holocaust, Lemkin successfully campaigned for the universal acceptance of international laws, defining and forbidding genocide. This was achieved in 1948, with the promulgation of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.

The CPPCG was adopted by the UN General Assembly on 9 December 1948 and came into effect on 12 January 1951 (Resolution 260 (III)). It contains an internationally-recognized definition of genocide which was incorporated into the national criminal legislation of many countries, and was also adopted by the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, the treaty that established the International Criminal Court (ICC). The Convention (in article 2) defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:"

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

See here for more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

by Cormac Eile Thu Jul 06, 2006 20:48

Jordan and Kuwait, and all other monarchical states in the region are western puppets. These states were established during the British Mandate, and the ancestors of those in power, were given power by the British, in return for loyalty.

These countries were never going to do anything but turn on the Palestinians.

by Noel Thu Jul 06, 2006 21:50

Cormac,
Using your definition of genocide - you could say the murders of members of the Miami Showband was an act of genocide.

(a) Killing members of the group; .............Check
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; .........Check
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; ...........Check

by PaddyK Thu Jul 06, 2006 22:53

"Can one of you pro-Israelis explain to me exactly why you think that Israel as a state should exist?"

Because the Internaitonal Jewish community needs a territory where it's safety and independence will be defended with complete prejudice. Apparently this territory is Israel, the borders just haven't been decided yet.

Did the British found Israel? How so?

by Noel Thu Jul 06, 2006 23:52

'8. It requires people of different ethnic backgrounds to have different license plates on their cars. (There can only one reason for this). If this isn't a modern equivalent of a yellow star I don't know what is.'

All Israeli number plates are the same.
Where do you get this stuff?
I have to guess you're a pro-Israel agent provocateur - you can't be such a dumbass for real.

by Arthur Kennedy Fri Jul 07, 2006 01:17

"Arthur, look up the definition of Genocide on wikipedia,"

Boy those Israelis are lousy genociders. Gaza has the highest population growth rate on the planet.
(you might do well to read the definition of genocide)

by Ali H. Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:34

Israeli Border Police officer forces Arab man from 'Attil to commit sexual act with a donkey; B'Tselem, June 2003.

"Then he told me to ride to the nearby grove. I asked him about my ID card. He told me that we hadn't finished, and that he would be behind me. He and the other policeman followed me in the jeep. When we reached the grove, he tied the donkey to a tree and told me to fuck it. He repeated his demand a couple of times. He also told me to lift up the tail of the donkey and tie it around my head. I told him that the tail was too short, and that I wasn't able to do it. He stood facing me and aimed his weapon at me. The other policeman was in the jeep, watching what was going on.

I stood behind the donkey, took out my penis, and told him "enough." He said, "I'll tell you when it is enough." I was frightened to death, and I couldn't get an erection, so I couldn't do anything. He made me continue, and I pretended that I was doing what he wanted me to do. I tried to look over at them, but the policeman yelled at me and told me not to look, and that if I did, he would shoot me. This went on for about thirty minutes, before he told me to stop. "

http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2006/02/justice....html

“I have read Gideon Levi’s article “A donkey procedure” and trembled, and can’t sleep at night ever since. I am 83 years old, a holocaust survivor. In the time of the holocaust I stayed, among other places, in a concentration camp.
When I read the article these images came to my mind. I do not want to compare, but I, who have gone through the horrors, cannot understand how in the state of Israel things like that happen, while no one speaks. How come we do not hear the voices of military officers, the minister of defense and maybe even the prime minister? “

http://bubble.typepad.com/bubble/2005/12/the_wall.html

by The Cat Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:01

I have read Lawrence of Cyberia, and the photographs he includes are of great benefit in realising the brutality at work in the ME. It is disgusting, but all too normal here in the ME. I have witnessed police from two Arabic nations beat up men who were not resisting.

by Cormac Eile Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:20

Lads,

That is the definition of genocide, as internationally defined. Before you criticise me, look it up. The campaign to have genocide defined and banned was led by Raphael Lemkin, a heroic man, and a jewish survivor of the holocaust.

Educate yourself before you are so quick to criticise.

Arabs do have to use different coloured licence plates to distinguish them from jewish people. This website is from a strongly pro-Israel and pro-Zionist http://www.masada2000.org/AccusingIsrael.html

You'll find plenty of others discussing the issue. Those licence plates are used as part of an overall campaign of oppression. Drivers of such cars are stopped and detained, sometimes for hours, on some pretext or other.

Wake up, this stuff is really going on!

Have a look at www.BatShalom.org and http://coalitionofwomen.org/home/english/organizations/...watch

for some real information, gathered at the coalface by a movement started and run by jewish women horrified at the treatment of Palestinians. The second site covers their programme to be present and monitor Israeli Occupying Forces behaviour to Palestinian men, women, and children as they try to cross police checkpoints to get to work.

I know from my uncles and cousins who've worked for the UN that the Israeli military operate a huge PR organisation. This organisation exists to ensure that any media reports outside Israel are provided with their news item by official Israeli sources first. The reports this military PR organisation provides are always couched carefully to present the Israeli side as security forces, or defence forces, who are always the forces of reason, acting against some outrageous palestinian atrocity, committed by some Palestinian "Militant" or other. If the Israelis happened to kill 10 or 15 Palestinians in retaliation, well, this is easily dealt with, you simply report them as militants too.

You have to open your eyes and ears, and at least have a healthy dose of doubt when you hear a report from either side.

OK, Palestinians use suicide bombers and fire rockets into Israel. I condemn this, as I condemn any targetting of civilians.

It is important to remember that Israeli forces have in the last few years, fired all sorts of munitions from smallarms fire , to tanks heavy guns, to helicopter rockets and machine guns, to aircraft on civilian areas. They've even used (purpose built) armoured Caterpillar bulldozers (huge things the size of houses), to knock down Palestinian homes, and many times there have still been people inside.

Lets not forget that Israeli soldiers were caught on television, deliberately targeting a 12 year old boy and his father who were caught in crossfire, and were desperately trying to take cover. The 12 year old boy was deliberately shot and killed. It was broad daylight. For some of these reports go here:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2364

For the cold blooded murder of both father and son, go here, look at the pictures, and look at the video.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad/sniper.html

by MT Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:28

We all know Arab people are as suceptible to brutality as anyone else. That is a very different thing from the murderous seizing of land from the Palestinians by Israel on the basis of their religious claims to that territory. Israel should be shunned by the rest of the world for what it is doing.

The aggression and revenge mentality of Israel because of the experiences of Jewish people in WW2 is a monster that has been completely out of control for several decades. When Israeli's find themselves visiting the same depravity on other people as was done to them down millenia, it should be pretty clear to them that something has gone wrong.

by Noel Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:28

'You have to open your eyes and ears, and at least have a healthy dose of doubt when you hear a report from either side.'

Cormac,
The Mohammed al-Dura Pallywood production has been exposed a long time.
You've not even got the basics right - Mohammed's father was not killed.
Now if you are allowing such propaganda to form your world view I suggest you take your own advice on board.

by MT Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:40

Excerpt for US Green Party on Israel's attack on Gaza:

"The conflict in Israel/Palestine has reached new levels of menace and suffering with the Israeli invasion of Gaza. The Israeli government is intent on inflicting significant suffering on the civilian population, targeting the local infrastructure by destroying the local power plant and three bridges. Water and electricity has been cut off to 1.3 million inhabitants. This comes on top of the suffering caused by decades of military occupation and the recent cutoff off of funds to the Palestinian government, which has left the many Palestinians in Gaza facing starvation.

With the "buzzing" of the home of the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, by Israeli fighter jets on the pretext that Syria is calling the shots for Hamas in Palestine, there is a grave threat that Israel will also take aggressive military action in Syria.

While I hope that the Israeli's soldier who has been captured is released unharmed, the pretext by Israeli authorities that the military operation in Gaza is to rescue the "kidnapped" IDF corporal Gilad Shalit does not stand the most elementary tests of reason. However unfortunate Shalit may be, he was a soldier in the line of duty, participating in a military action which had involved deadly shelling of Gaza. Thus he was captured in the line of duty, not kidnapped, and his treatment falls under the laws of war, which most certainly do not call for an invasion in response to the capture of a non-commissioned soldier."

Read the full item here:

http://www.gp.org/press/states/ny_2006_06_29.shtml

by Cormac Eile Fri Jul 07, 2006 13:17

Give me proof that this was faked video.

It was shown widely on television around the world. I've never seen a single media report suggesting the footage might have been faked. It looks very real to me.

I don't believe you. But as I always have a healthy dose of skepticism, and I am open minded, if you can provide proof, I am willing to question the footage.

by Noel Fri Jul 07, 2006 13:26

Cormac,
Google Muhammed al-Dura.
While you're Googling try Pallywood.
Check out the different links - this has been blogged extensively.
If you are truly sceptical this story should make you question your currently held view.

http://www.masada2000.org/al-dura.html

by Cormac Eile Fri Jul 07, 2006 13:36

This supposed investigation was carried out by IDF people. I know other investigations closer to home that exhonerated military. How about the Widgery Tribunal that exhonerated the murderous British soldiers in Derry.

There is an unbelievable stench of bullshit from this supposed investigation. The "evidence" that the bullets came from the Palestinian position is highly questionable, and just because it is said in a pseudo rational and pseudo non-biased manner means nothing.

On balance it is more likely that the Israelis shot this boy, given that the cameraman worked for a French TV station. That station, from what I've read has never distanced itself from the images.

The IDF simply got caught out here, doing something they've done before and since, and they didn't like it. This is why they continually harrass journalists within the Palestinian territories.

Why only recently they tried to pretend that their navy hadn't shelled a family having a picnic.

I'm still convinced that Israeli soldiers shot that boy in cold blood and in broad daylight.

by Cormac Eile Fri Jul 07, 2006 13:59

So what you're saying is that the lesson the Israelis learned from the Nazi's and other oppressors was that it is ok to commit genocide? You seem to think that this is ok...

by The Cat Fri Jul 07, 2006 14:00

To be more analytical about it, the situation now may be comparable to some abused children who grow to become abusers themselves. Perhaps this, coupled with the siege mentality fostered by existing as a nation at war since its creation, has led to a nation that are indeed heavy handed at times.

by Cormac Eile Fri Jul 07, 2006 15:32

I think you are right.

Part of the problem maintaining this conflict is that the state itself was founded on an injustice, the forced expulsion of over 750,000 people off their land.

This is the same thing that happened in Ireland during the Plantations, and any time the two communities looked like uniting (as it almost did during the United Irish movement), the puppetmasters injected more sectarianism to divide the community again.

Israel is as it is because it it the policy of the US and Britain to keep the region in a state of managed instability.

This is achieved by stoking up distrust, and preventing the creation of situations that may eventually lead to peace. Any negotiations to date have been a sham.

by Cormac Eile Fri Jul 07, 2006 16:50

Arthur, are you so mentally fenced in by propaganda that you are incapable of seeing that there may possibly be some tiny element of what Israel is doing is wrong?

In your mind, are they completely free from any moral deficiency back over the last 120 years since Zionist was first proposed?

by Ali H. Fri Jul 07, 2006 17:56

"In “The Arab Image in Hebrew School Textbooks,” an article drawing from his study of 124 textbooks, Professor Dan Bar-Tal of Tel Aviv University reports that “over the years, generations of Israeli Jews were taught a negative and often delegitimizing view of Arabs.”

Bar-Tal found some positive Arab images. But he reports two major themes of Arab characteristics. One taught “primitiveness, inferiority in comparison to Jews.” The other related to “their violence, to characteristics like brutality, untrustworthiness, cruelty, fanaticism, treacherousness and aggressiveness.”

Referring to Israeli texts of the ’80s and ’90s, Bar-Tal reports: “Geography books for the elementary and junior high schools stereotype Arabs negatively, as primitive, dirty, agitated, aggressive, and hostile to Jews … history books in the elementary schools hardly mention Arabs … history textbooks of the high schools, the majority of which cover the Arab-Jewish conflict, stereotype the Arabs negatively. Arabs are presented as intransigent and uncompromising.”

“The parents and the grandparents of the present generation,” says Bar-Tal, “were provided with the same negative image of the Arabs in their school textbooks as we see today, within the context of the prolonged Jewish-Arab conflict. One might add that it takes many years to rewrite school textbooks and a few generations to change the societal beliefs about the stereotyping and delegitimization of the Arabs.” "

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystor....html

As is their wont, the children tried to provoke the adults. They repeatedly came over to warn the journalists and to request, like their parents, not to photograph them. They hid from the camera lens under the tallit of the leader of the gang, and then peeked out at the photographers. But from mischievousness, rage and wickedness burst forth, as well. After the residents refused to allow the entry of an army truck with containers for them to pack up their belongings, and repeatedly forced it to reverse, one of the children shouted at the driver: "Run them over, run them over," as he pointed at the journalists. When the latter asked the children if they could ask their parents to enable a few reporters to enter the settlement and use the restroom, one boy, who looked to be about nine years old, replied: "Do it in the sand, like animals. You are animals.?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticle...14879

by Ali H. Fri Jul 07, 2006 18:00

And I don't write posts about Jewish Israelis celebrating religious holidays by dressing up their kids with combat gear and weapons, just so I can wring my hands in faux exasperation about "What's wrong with Judaism and why does it glorify violence?".

And I never linked to the March 2005 cartoon in the Shas magazine for kids - that taught its readers "ערבי טוב הוא ערבי מת”** - ("the only good Arab is a dead Arab.") in order to "show my audience what ultra orthodox Jews teach their kids".

And I didn't link to Yedioth Ahronoth (Israel's most popular daily paper) on 7 May 2002, when it published a selection of letters from Israeli 7th to 10th graders urging IDF soldiers in the West Bank to "Please kill a lot of Arabs", so that I could pontificate to my audience about the ugly racial indoctrination that Israeli kids must go through to produce such hatred in children so young.

Hebron_market
And I don't highlight this kind of handiwork from the Hebron settlers, and present it as proof that you simply can't make peace with Jewish Israelis, because theirs is a murderous religion that obliges them "to commit genocide" against the Palestinians.......

http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2005/12/this_is....html

by Arthur Kennedy Fri Jul 07, 2006 19:10

"last 120 years since Zionist was first proposed?"

Hey that was before the Germans and their Arab Moslem allies perpetrated the atrocities of WWII.

That makes the premise incorrect.

by MT Fri Jul 07, 2006 19:29

"Hoda my friend building is hit again

Gaza 1.45 am 5th of July

Big explosion,very big and so loud, I'm fully awake , so sondos (my daughter) ,we hardly can see any thing it is very dark , the drone hit the ministry of interior building again with 1 missile ,that completely destroyed the building , as I hear the news from the local radio, it is very dark , I contacted Hoda,my friend,she lives next to the building ,to find her hysterically screaming , shouting in pain,trapped under her broken windows, all the windows,of her flat broke ,the fumes fill the place , she is waiting for the emergency team to evacuate her,I can hear the hysterical sounds of her neibours,over the phone ,I feel helpless, don't know what to do,for my friend , I phoned again to offer help , she told me that she is ok , I know she is not , 5 of her neiboughers were injured , some of them the terrified kids I mentioned in one of my previous blogs ,I visited Hoda 4 hours ago , we both were tense , a third friend asked us to talk about anything but not politics ,or what is going on in the Palestinian scene ,we tried to , but couldn't , I left her , walked home , only 5 minute from my place

the aeroplanes sound is high in the sky, can't reach Hoda, because I cannot leave my daughter alone , and I expect more air raids , I'm sure some other friends are with her now , she lives alone .While writing I can hear another explosion , they hit an empty children school in another neibourghood.

I have no analysis may be you try to help me to know , why to hit an empty building twice ,
I can see it as desperate eager to revenge , humiliate and intimidate us ,
They will not succeed.

yours in love and solidarity
Mona"

Read Dr Mona Elfarra's blog here:

http://fromgaza.blogspot.com/

by MT Fri Jul 07, 2006 20:11

"Facts and figures about the impact of the current Israeli raids
against Gaza on Health

We in Gaza face great pressure on the basic services and humanitarian
situation. For those who need to be reminded, since the start of this
Intifada (Sept. 2000) Gaza’s economy has been severely affected by
the continuous Israeli atrocities: road blocks, borders closures,
destruction of agricultural areas, and home demolitions. The current
rate of unemployment is as high as 60% of the population. The vast
majority of Palestinian families are living on humanitarian aid and
an increasing number of families live under the poverty line, with
many living on just two dollar/family daily. Gaza is very small
place, smaller than a swing for a cat. It is just it is 360sq km with
1.5 million residents so we have a very high population density.

Since Israel withdraw from Gaza in september 2005, with the so-
called one sided disengagement plan, the only changes were no
checkpoints inside Gaza and the Rafah border crossing, which we use
for traveling to Egypt, was opened.

In January 2006, we had an election.the people majority elected a Hamas government
, since that date nearly 4 months ago, economical and political
sanctions were imposed on the Palestinian people as punishment for
their democratic choice. the choice was an outcome of the occupation
practices with the American government’s support ,and corruption of the
Palestinian government after the Oslo accord.

The four months of economic sanctions has increased the health problems and
we in the health field face a collapsing health system. We do not
have medications in our stores and had to prioritize the surgical
operations due to lack of medical supplies. The last thing we needed
is the power cut off and the complete sealing of the Gaza Strip
with the economical sanctions,poverty level increased
you all know, poverty has a direct effect on health, and when people
are hungry, they save their cash for food, which will consequently
affects their expenditures towards health.,this puts extra presure on the health system,already weak and ineed for larger resources to b erevived,

Here are some facts and figures about the effect of the power cut
off, the economic sanctions, and the Israeli operation in Gaza on
health:

1. 112,000 patients with chronic diseases who need routine
medications are not sure to get these medications at all and if they
do receive the correct medications, it might be expired due to lack
of regular electricity where it is stored in the refrigerators of the
medical facilities. Cancer patients, diabetic patients, and people
with heart disease are few examples of the many cases.

2. 22 hospitals are currently depending on alternative electric power
generators. Bear in mind that those generators need diesel fuel and
the hospitals donot , have enough diesel ,we depend on Israel
. We live under israeli occupation and
therefore must get all our basic needs via Israel.including fuel

3. 200 daily surgical operations will be postponed.

4. 250 renal dialysis patients’ lives are threatened because the
supply of dialysis solution is running low.

5. 30,000 children suffer from malnutrition. This number will
increase as diarrhea spreads. There is a limited supply of good clean
water and high rates of food contamination; diarrhea is expected to
rise by 15% as an outcome of lack of clean water and good hygiene
.
6. Premature babies on life support machines are awaiting death
sentences and the number of deaths for preterm deliveries will
increase as well.

7. Children are lacking proper sleep and proper recreation. They are
feeling insecure all the time and have to live with the non-stop
sonic booming and artillery shelling. A number of those children will
continue to suffer from different psychological problems or drawbacks.

(Source: Palestinian Statistics Bureau)

tonight ,the israeli army intend to make big incursion into beit hanoun village , north of Gaza,

the soldier has to be freed , so the palestinian political prisoners ,

by gordi Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:50

1.The state of Israel wasn't "founded" by the British Empire. It was found by a U.N resolution, in which, by the way, Britain abstained. The same resolution was about a Palestinian State, as well. Somehow, that never happened, don't ask me why. Ask Jordan and Egypt instead.
To established the state was needed a long struggle against the British Empire. If by "founded" you mean that the British ruled it before it was established - well, they rulled Ireland and India too. In the other hand, they DID FOUND Jordan.
2. Till 1948 all land Jews set on in Israel/Palestine was bought by money. Please spare me the argument that there were tenants on that land that were dispossessed, and the Jews are to blame, of course. After 1948 - well, that's war. Don't start it if you are not ready to suffer the consequence in case of losing. The Palestinian started, The Israelis won.
3. Show me ONE state that didn't.
4. The Israeli Palestinians suffer no restrictions in movement, commerce, or access to water. If in "Palestinians" you mean the West Bank, well. there is an occupation there, I wont say its correct and I won't say It's right. In the other hand, they would have had a state of their own by now, had they not blown it all in October 2000. In the other hand, they would have a state of their own for 59 years now, had they not blown it in 1947.
5. So does the Palestinians. With one distinction: the Israelis at least TRY not to hurt civilians. Palestinians do it on purpose.
6. UN resolutions are consistently biased, led by the Arab loby in the UN.
7. True. Israel has its own attenuating circumstances for it. I'd just say thay public opinion in Israel was against it. Still, its not something that abolishes a right of existance.
8. Not true. Israeli Palestinians, Druze, Chrekes, Beduians and Jews, all have the same yellow license plates. Different license plates take place in the west Bank. We've mentioned the occupation and said its not an ideal thing. It has nothing to do with racism or ethnicity.
9. Had the walls of Warsaw Getto include the area the fence includes, you had a point. Shall I enter to the subjuct of the difference between a border fence and a Ghetto? Or to the difference between a vast region and a neighborhood? Cuase right now, you are not even close. Israel has a right to defend itself. The only problem with the fence, in my opinion, is that it separetes farmers from their land, kids from their school etc. its route should have been different.
10. When one talks of Israel, one is definitely talking of most Jewish people. There are some loud ultra-radical leftisits, as well as some Neturei Karta. Most of the others, even those who oppose to Israel's policy's, are not against its existance. As for Neturei Karta - their problem is some Talmudic interpretation to some verse in Song of Songs of the Bible, inwhich (in the Talmud. not in the Bible) God made Israel swear (after the ravage) not to rebell world's kingdoms, not ascend at the wall, and not to prod the end. God also made world's nations swear not to subjugate Israel excessively. In other words - Independant state for Jews is something just the Messiah can bring. Most Jews, inc. Ultra-Orthodox don't have a problem with that. Neturei Karta has. In the other hand, Neturei Karta don't recognize any Jews outside Neturei Karta.
As for some ultra-radical leftisits, Jewish history is full with Jews betraing their own. Nothing new.
11. a. What concentration camps are you talking about?
b. Haven't ever heard about it. can you provide some link?
12. Israel had no quarell with UN soldiers. UN soldiers, in the other hand, tend to have agreements with Hizballa (drugs and alcohol in exchange for turning a blind eye). Thus, 3 IDF Soldiers were kidnapped and killed, or killed and kidnapped, INSIDE the Israeli border, infront of UN post. UN were busy smoking drugs.
By the way, as far as I know, only the Irish UN soldiers know they are Irish.
13. Israel doesn't give citizenship based on one's religion, but based on etnicity. It was established to be an independant state for Jews, since Jews are nation as well as faith. You can be a gentile according to Jewish traditional law, but still get citizenship, if your father, for example, was Jewish.
Anyway, it's Israel own damn bussiness to whom to grant citizenship.

You know, Israel exists for 58 years now. States did much worse than Israel, and NO ONE dares to question their right of existance. Would you question the right of existance of France, China, Russia, US, UK, Japan, Italy? Not to mention Germany, Iran, Iraq?

by Felix Quigley - www.isill.blogspot.com Sun Jul 16, 2006 16:10

The following is on www.isill.blogspot.com, also posted on Israpundit on http://www.israpundit.com/2006/?p=1816#more-1816

Copied and pasted text removed (normally such posts are hidden outright) -ed.

by Paul R Sun Jul 16, 2006 16:45 tarbhmaith at imagine dot ie

"Palestinians share the same ideology as the so-called insurgency in Iraq, they have the same ideology as the Taliban and the same goals as Al-Qaida - the end of Western democracy, freedom and tolerance."

You should have started the paragraph with Now, as historically the PLO have a more secular and left wing ideology.

It goes to prove an oftmentioned point in these pages that as one oppress a people and curb all their options in pursuing the "goodlife" then their options become more and more extreme.

I think Israel is reaping what it sowed over the last 50 years.

Unfortuneately they will also experience continuing albeit asymetrical warfare over the foreseeable future furthering them to choice a more and more dehumanising path. This can not be good for an Israeli self esteem nor general happiness.

I wonder will the country continue to attract in migration.

by PaddyK Tue Jul 18, 2006 04:49

The UN did not found Israel, the UN was still scratching it's head about what to do when the emergency Israeli government declared independence. European Zionists founded Israel. The Zionists took the sliver of consent provided by the English in the Balfour Declaration and expanded exponentially upon it. In the declaration, was the lofty undertaking that they (the Brits) would permit the founding of a Jewish National Home in Palestine and in 1948 they (the Zionists) completed and surpassed their initial aims. The indigenous Arabs resisted and rejected the curious plan from day one but were defeated ultimately .
The Israeli "Ancient Homeland" claim, whilst it might actually even be true, has no validity in modern reality . Israel can not be stopped and that is reality, so the mystical stories are irrelevant. To stop Israel, America would have to veto Israel's illegal actions and its not in America's interest to do that. Israel is the only Independent extra-American state, providing military services in the ME for the American Government in return for 5 billion dollars worth of weapons a year. In return, Israel gets a licence to act with impunity, whilst expanding its borders into Palestinian Arab territory.
Any objective person would accept that there's no burden of responsibility on Palestinian Arabs to accept that their lands were to be taken from them by European immigrants. The Indigenous Palestinian Arab Communities resisted that notion then ; and they continue to resist it now.
It is the intent of people, like the propagandists we see above in this thread, to try to paint a veneer of parity on the picture in order to make the original war in 1948 appear like a two-sided Palestinian civil war which the Zionist side tried to avoid peacefully. That policy of trying to make it look like its a level, two sided contest continues through to today.

When one talks of Israel one talks of a country that sees no legal limitations on it's actions. It is a thinly disguised military junta with a display of voting thrown over it for show. The faces might change but its military objectives dont.
It's objectives ? Aggression against the Palestinians and slow expansion towards Jordan under a smokescreen of propoganda.
The Israel Wall is a tool of expansion. Not just because it has already annexed currently viable Palestinian state land but that it has completely isolated entire Palestinian communities upon that land, leaving them with no future option other than to leave , in order to survive.
If they leave, that land will also be taken and populated with Israeli Immigrants. The wall is a weapon. The intentions of successive Israeli governments is to make life so hard for the Palestinian Arabs that one by one , family by family, they will simply give up and go away.

When Israel fixes it's borders and agrees a compromise with the Palestinians, then it will be Israel's own damn business what it does. Right now Israel shold be boycotted as a rogue state. When it's people realise that good international relations are more important than having a ruthless unstoppable army, they will start to see the answer to their problems. Israel must be disarmed through boycott.

America must be convinced that there is no support in the world for its economic project in the Middle East. The US will never stop Israeli mass murder operations whilst it conducts its own mass murder operation a few hundred miles away.

You know, Israel exists for 58 years now. States did much worse than Israel, and no one questioned their right to exist. It is also not productive to question Israels right too exist. History cannot be altered and perhaps one day when Israel has been disarmed and has joined the community of nations, the Israeli people will be able to bring a much needed wind of change to the region. For now, Israel is a rogue element in a very volatile region.
Strangely, America seems to be completeley happy with this situation. Until this equation changes nothing can be done to stop the current mayhem in the Middle East. We will continue to hear ridiculous calls for Islamic terrorists to stop the agression. We will continue to see the compliant media trying to create an illusion of parity between the regional players.
Do not be fooled by the anti-Palestinian smokescreen. Count the casualties of Lebanese citizenry. Ignore the excuses. Witness the destruction of Lebanese society. Understand, for reasons known only to Israel, that the Lebanese must once again feel the pain of the Palestinians.

by Thomas Rooney - israeliswrong.com Tue Aug 01, 2006 04:45

In the next 2 days or so this willl be the site to post all israel is wrong news we will do our best. We hope not to fall.

by rubbish Tue Aug 01, 2006 15:25

Understand, for reasons known only to Israel, that the Lebanese must once again feel the pain of the Palestinians.

LOL..ask Hizbollah what the reasons are pal, i think thats the **Junta** you are referring to

Also dont try to make it seem that israel just sprung up in 1948

KEEP IT REAL

Timeline of Palestinian History and Politics:

by hmmz Tue Aug 01, 2006 16:40

suggest you educate yourself and have a read, come back a bit more educated about a topic you profess to know so much about