Global Capitalism responsible for the deaths of over 100,000 in the Indian Ocean.

by john throne - laborsmilitantvoice Thu Dec 30, 2004 20:10 loughfinn at aol dot com

In these days when information can circle the globe in a second, when the technology is available to detect quakes under the sea and transmit this information ashore almost immediately, when capitalist globalization is integrating the planet as never before, the failure to prevent the catastrophe in South East Asia is a failure of global capitalism. It is a confirmation that the resources that are available today are being used in the interests of global capitalism not in the interests of the peoples of the world.
Over 100,000 people are dead as a result of the South East Asia Tsunami, there is massive destruction in the 11 countries directly affected, including 1 million homeless, and the Bush Government offers 15 million in aid. About the price of a house in a
wealthy suburb of a large American city. Incredible. Stung by the response he got this swine and his aides upped their offer to $35 million, still pathetic. Compare this with the $200,000 billion plus they are prepared to spend slaughtering in Iraq. The Bush regime and US Imperialism are monsters.

But it is not not only that. This is the time when we hear nothing in the US but the talk of security and the threat from Islamic countries. Imagine if the US government with its knowledge of the quake which it had picked up on its Geological Survey's world wide network and which gave it at least some idea in advance of the tsunami had made this available to the people in the area, Indonesia is after all the worlds largest muslim nation, and told them the tsunami was likely on the
way, a massive surge of solidarity with the US would have resulted as well as all the deaths and suffering would have been avoided.

This would have strengthened US security a lot. Much more than any Patriot Act of the slaughter in Iraq. But of course this is an illusion. The truth is US Imperialism is not interested in the security of the US people. Instead they are interested in all Americans feeling as insecure as possible so they can justify war abroad and repression at home. US Imperialism and its leaders stand condemned by this catastrophe. Its technology registered the quake when it happened and it did nothing.

The technology exists to forecast tsunamis. It is in place off the west coast of the USA in the Pacific ocean. Quakes in the ocean bed are registered, relayed ashore just about immediately and notice is therefore given in advance of possible tsunamis. Information as to what action to take is also made available in advance. Most of the countries hit by this catastrophe are so poor that they have no such technology in place. Therefore when they did not get notice from the richer countries they had no warning. The poverty of these countries is another aspect of imperialist domination and the exploitation of these countries.

This is the time when information can rush around the world in a nano second. This is the time when money can be transfered round the world in the blink of an eye. This is the time when satelites are circling the earth and being used for financial and military means, TV, Radio and all sorts of entertainment. Why was all this technology not used to save the lives of the people in the areas hit by the tsunami. Global capitalism and how it uses todays technology has been shown to be a horrific
failure by this tsunami. Capitalism and its globalization stands condemned by this tsunami and the terrible cost in human life and suffering that has resulted.

The US Geological Survey's world wide network picked up the quake but this information was not used to alert the countries under threat and help them prepare for the tsunami. If this had been done this would have saved nearly everybodys lives. Like the US Japan which also picked up the reverbations of the quake just sat on the information. Australia did the same. The Australian government said the "diplomatic protocols" did not exist to inform the other countries. This is nauseating. The Australian government does not need "diplomatic protocols" to use violence in its fight for the oil resources in the East Timor region.

Of the poorer countries one individual in the relevant department in Indonesia picked up the reverbations of the quake when it happened but could not contact the officials in charge. It was the weekend. The infrastructure and state apparatus in Indonesia, as is the case in the other countries of the region, is geared towards trade and tourism with the Imperialist countries and in keeping down their own working class and national minorities. It was shown to be entirely inadequate when faced with the crisis of the tsunami. The hardest hit areas such as Sri Lanka and India got no warnings at all.

What is needed is a worldwide network of systems which can register quakes and immediately alert all the areas of the world. On shore what is needed are departments concentrated on receiving and distributing this information and on education and infrastructure development and with the ability to mobilise resources in the event of a quake and a possible tsunami .

Global capitalism is incapable of bringing about this system. There is not enough profit in it for them. The Financial Times which tries to pose as a more humane face of capitalism than the Wall Street Journal bemoaned the deaths and suffering but pointed out the "silver lining" which they said was the fact that the "regions big industrial and port areas were unaffected". Their profits will go on being raked in.

Global capitalism uses the worlds resources and technology for making more and more profits, not to help make the lives of the people of the world better. The deaths, injuries and suffering as a result of the South East Asian tsunami could have been avoided if the worlds technology and resources were being used to help the people of the world. Working class unity and working class democracy internationally and an integrated economic and technological system collectively owned internationally, this is the alternative. Such a system in place could have avoided the 100,000 deaths and suffering.

One other side of this that is noticeable in the US is that the US mass media is using the terrible suffering of the people in the tsunami hit areas to further convince the US working class population that they are well off, or at least things could be worse for them. Just go to work and keep quiet, and work hard, and don't raise any awkard ideas about anything. Look at the poor people hit by the tsunami, you could be a lot worse off, that could be you. And anyway nothing could be done about it. This is nature. Meanwhile the boss gets richer, the Bush regime kills more in Iraq and gets more US working class youth killed, and it makes more and more profits for its big business backers.

Sean O'T.

by Séamus Ó Cadhain Thu Dec 30, 2004 21:23

Good article - very informative and enlightening.

by toneore Thu Dec 30, 2004 21:29 toneore at eircom dot net

So, the solution to natural disasters is that "The resources of the world need to be owned and democratically planned by the working class and poor peasants". It strikes me that there is NOTHING in this article that will help the help impacted by this disaster - it's the usual communist rant of the "big picture", "contextualized", "real issues" of the purveyors of a failed political creed - instead it takes advantage of the suffering of our fellow man to peddle a political agenda that the very people impacted by this disaster DO NOT WANT. The solution to the problem is globalisation - let these poor people better their lives.

by Michael Hennigan Thu Dec 30, 2004 22:52

SP Member - and before this dastardly system of capitalism came about with its nefarious systems of technology, some of which you are in fact using, there was some better warning system?

India, Thailand and Indonesia could have well afforded a warning system.

As to : 'Capitalism has failed to protect the people of the Indian Ocean coastal areas from preventable death. It is unable to respond with the urgency and planning needed to save the survivors and help them rebuild. The resources of the world need to be owned and democratically planned by the working class and poor peasants to ensure that natural events, like earthquakes and tsunamis, are minimised and those affected helped to recover.'

The problem with your argument is that you want to use modern technology but your ideal world appears to be a communal low technology one.

This prescription has more in common with witch doctor medicine than modern life. Apparently, a warning system would not involve significant cost.

As to the line about the resources of the world need to be 'owned and democratically planned by the working class and poor peasants,' this sounds like a line that a politician who plans to be a dictator, would use .

by . Thu Dec 30, 2004 23:17

as for the comments

It is clear to most people that even with limited communications in the region a fair degree of warning could have been given.

Many more deaths could be avoided if enough cash and material support was made availabe. In Britain the donations from the public have outstripped the governments contribution to such an extent that government has been forced to give more.

If capitalism give a f**k about ordinary people the impact of this disaster could have been much much less.

by Michael Hennigan Thu Dec 30, 2004 23:44

Re: 'Global capitalism is incapable of bringing about this system. There is not enough profit in it for them. The Financial Times which tries to pose as a more humane face of capitalism than the Wall Street Journal bemoaned the deaths and suffering but pointed out the "silver lining" which they said was the fact that the "regions big industrial and port areas were unaffected". Their profits will go on being raked in.'

As to the comment of the Financial Times, as with so many things, interpretation can depend on what prism one is looking through.

Maybe, the FT writer was thinking of the lot of the ordinary guy who is hardest hit by economic disaster compared with the manger/bureaucrats in a command econmy or manager/owners in a capitalist system?

So when the governments of the region decided that there was no need to waste money on a warning system, it's all the fault of capitalists in say Silicon Valley - who would actually have been eager to make a sale!

I actually think that the use of this disaster for political point scoring is inappropriate.

by Michael Hennigan Thu Dec 30, 2004 23:54

Irrespective of 'isms,' a warning system should have been in place whether the best system could be provided by North Korea, Cuba or the US.

The principal governments of the region - which are democracies of various degree - thought that a warning system wasn't necessary. So if people feel better by blaming capitalist bogeymen, so be it.

The fact that bureaucrats at the Thai Met Service decided that they would not issue an advance warning of the possibility of tidal waves because of the fear of a backlash from the tourist industry, can be viewed as another capitalist plot. However, it would be naive to expect bureaucrats, in the absence of a clear existing policy, to behave any differently, irrespective of the 'ism.'

by . Fri Dec 31, 2004 00:42

Michael

Your appear to agree with all the key points made here, except the use of the word capitalism.
At the same time you make an excellent point that in the interest of PROFIT the Thai government did not issue a warning, no better example of the capitalist systems drive for profit coming in front of everything else could be given.

by ared dred Fri Dec 31, 2004 01:12

Aid for Tsunami victims $35 million
Bush Inaugural $45 million
Cost for one day of Iraq war $177 million

by micheailin o'cinnsealach Fri Dec 31, 2004 07:49 email at saoirse32 dot tk

Excellent article and very informative, but this part here beggars belief:

"The Hawaii PTWC had detected the 9.0 Richter earthquake and likelihood of tsunamis. Incredibly, they issued warnings to Pacific countries but not to those around the Indian Ocean. “We tried to do what we could. We don't have any contacts in our address book for anybody in that particular part of the world," said Charles McCreery, director of the centre. (Independent 28.12.04)"

It doesn't take much money nor can it be attributed to the fault of global capitalism that countries in the Indian Ocean area do not encourage and promote even a volunteer contingent of website watchers and the building of early warning siren systems such as have been in use for decades to warn coastal-situated peoples in other places. There is no excuse for that quote above in my opinion.

by . Fri Dec 31, 2004 09:37

The coverage on the TV this morning has been interesting. The British Government is under pressure for the size and speed of their responce and there are questions asked about why government aid is not reaching Tamil areas of Sri Lanka.

by Michael Hennigan Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:14

I just believe that blaming 'global capitalism' for this simply obscures where the actual responsibility should lay.

As to profit, the argument can be made that instead of having a spineless flunkey in charge at the Thai Met Office on a quiet Sunday morning, if there was an individual who had the imagination to grasp the gravity of the issue and the future of the tourist industry could also be a factor in making a decision to issue a warning. So the issue of profit can work both ways.

Bureaucrats everywhere take the risk averse option and the odd one who uses initiative, more often than not, has to find another job.

The reality is that this disaster resulted from international inertia and a failure of imagination. Sunday's earthquake was similar to size and location to ones in 1797 and 1833 which also resulted in in significant tidal waves.

The following is an extract from an article in today's New York Times:

'The possibility of tsunamis arising in the Indian Ocean had not completely escaped international attention. During the 1990's, an obscure United Nations group, the International Coordination Group for the Tsunami Warning System in the Pacific, periodically considered the extension of tsunami alert systems to parts of the globe outside the Pacific, including the Caribbean and Indian Ocean.

At a meeting of the group in Lima, Peru, in September 1997, for example, its members had considered proposals to expand the network to the Indian Ocean, particularly because of Indonesia's tectonic activity. Nothing concrete happened.

Among the scientists who kept up a restrained but insistent pressure was Dr. Phil Cummins, a seismologist with Australia's geosciences agency. He continued to gather and present evidence that an Indian Ocean tsunami was inevitable, although unpredictable in terms of timing, and posed a grave threat to many countries. He met with no ill will, but with considerable inertia, he said.

"Just look at the name," he said. "The international body designed to coordinate international tsunami-related activity is mandated as a Pacific entity."

Dr. Cummins cited details from dusty records kept by the Dutch colonists in Indonesia and from Dr. Sieh's coral studies that great 19th-century earthquakes in the 1,200-mile arc of faults west of Sumatra had generated destructive ocean-spanning waves.

He made his case in October 2003, at a meeting of the international tsunami group in Wellington, New Zealand, when he pushed for formal expansion of the international network into the Indian Ocean.

The group rebuffed him, saying, in the stiff language of meeting minutes, that any such expansion could occur only if an overarching governing body dealing in global oceanographic issues formally redefined its "terms of reference."

In the meantime, it voted to establish "a sessional working group to prepare a recommendation to establish an intersessional working group that will study the establishment of a regional warning system for the Southwest Pacific and Indian Ocean."

Dr. Cummins prepared a position paper at that meeting laying out his arguments. He used a computer model similar to that used by Dr. Titov in Seattle to study how tsunamis spread from the great Sumatran quake of 1833.

He simulated the quake in a mathematical simulacrum of the ocean, and simulated waves radiated until they struck as far north as eastern India and all around western Australia. The Sumatran shore east of the fault was devastated, and a directional pulse of energy, resulting in higher waves, splayed westward like a shotgun blast.

At the time, the images of those reconstructed virtual waves must have seemed like yet another computer analysis, predicting yet another potential disaster that might or might not occur in this, or the next century.

Now, the reconstructions, so similar to what happened last Sunday, carry a disturbing weight. .

by tired of mindless crap Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:34

This is typical finger pointing nonsense. The governments of the region screwed up big time. It is not the fault of anybody else. I guess the more groups you point the finger at the better you feel about yourself. Just more bitching by the SP.


How about you tell us what the SP plan on doing right NOW to help the people in the region. I suspect absoultly nothing.

by redjade Fri Dec 31, 2004 16:21

cartoon:
http://www.ucomics.com/rallcom/2004/12/30/

by R. Isible Fri Dec 31, 2004 16:32

"Tired of mindless crap" accuse the SP writer of "finger pointing" and demands to know "what the SP are doing right NOW".

If it turns out that the current system of organising the world guarantees that there will be future disasters on a similar scale because we're busy spending money on oil wars and missile defence systems then the SP analysis above is correct.

There is nothing the SP can do to help the people right now besides throwing a couple of quid towards disaster relief. On the other hand if they can wake a few people up from believing that all they have to do is wring their hands and squeeze out a few hypocritical tears whenever the results of a world organised around poverty and profit show themselves then they have done a lot to prevent or diminish this sort of disaster the NEXT time it happens.

by a human being Fri Dec 31, 2004 16:33

''The unfolding scale of the earthquake and the massive trail of human suffering and grief is nearly too much to bear. the realisation that the loss of life could have been so much less if resources had been concentrated on an effective early warning system is dawning on us all. We will respond now with aid for the immediate saving of life and the rebuiling of shattered communities, but for a fraction of the cost and with the right will we could have saved tens of thousands of lives.''

http://www.humanbeings.ie

by R. Isible Fri Dec 31, 2004 16:40

Canada has a huge Tamil and Sinhalese population. The long-running independence struggle centered in Tamil Nadu is often echoed in rhetorical struggle between these two emigrant groups. This struggle has been cast into sharper contrast by the tsunami disaster with the dissident Tamils claiming that disaster aid is being withheld from them by the majority Sinhalese/government population. See link for summary:

http://www.news.tamilcanadian.com/

Wikipedia (the free online open content encyclopedia) has a good article giving context here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake

by qwerty Fri Dec 31, 2004 17:04

The SP through the CWI have members in that region and have had members killed and made homeless by the disaster. To say they are doing nothing is utter rubbish

by Julia Fri Dec 31, 2004 18:32 Clonakilty

Is the Irish government among those who have asked the governments of Indonesia, India, Thailand and Sri Lanka, not to bury unidentified bodies after the tsunami? This is not on. This morning's Euronews channel carried a story about unnamed western governments making this "request" at a time when those four countries need immediate and longer term aid from those same western nations.
Identifying bodies is important for those who need bodies to grieve over and to bury. But every day they remain in the tropical heat, they increase the likelihood of killer diseases, as decomposing bodies contaminate water and foul the air.
Whatever "requests" have been made to delay burials should be withdrawn, as the grieving process, important though it is, is not worth the loss of one additional life on the shores of the Indian Ocean.

by pc Fri Dec 31, 2004 20:27

well that's a good point about the burying, they are appealing for refridgeration trucks, it probably nescesary to bury straight away but i feel sorry for those that'll never find their loveds one.. interesting link Re: listening for Tsunami warnings - sunbathing / global capitalism - natrual disaters = amount dead There is rumour that the Thai government knew long before 20 minutes. Thai newspaper documents government attempt to kill tsunami warning http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=519 Swedish paper reports tsunami warning halted out of concern for tourist industry http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=518

by cwi Fri Dec 31, 2004 20:31

The Asian tsunami whose deadly waves have created havoc along the coasts of two continents is the single most devastating global natural disaster of our time.

The Tsunami has also become the biggest natural catastrophe of our time to affect Sweden. Among the far more than 100,000 killed are at least two thousand western tourists. Many of those, whose attempt to celebrate their Christmas in holiday paradises like Khao Lak and Phuket was turned into a hell, came from the winter cold of the Nordic countries.

Thai authorities believe that at least 80 per cent of the still 6,000 missing persons in that country are dead – beyond the nearly 2,000 deaths already counted. Half of those are expected to be foreign tourists, like the proportion among the already registered deaths.

In Sweden, which seems to be the single most affected country, most of the 1,350 still missing charter tourists are now believed to be dead, on top of the hundreds already identified. On top of those, there are probably more deaths among the more than 3,000 missing who have gone to the area on their own. This makes the Swedish element of the Asian catastrophe the single worst disaster that has struck the country since the "Spanish disease" following the First World War.

Political scandal
At the same time the catastrophe is also developing into a major political scandal. There is enormous gratitude among those affected for the unselfish help that has been given from poor Thai people as well as from tourists of different nationalities who have stayed behind to offer themselves as voluntary relief workers. But just as great as their praise for them is their angry criticism against the Swedish government and its Foreign Office (UD) and embassy in Thailand for the arrogant lack of both information and help forthcoming.

Since a couple of days ago, a few extra aeroplanes from Swedish travel companies have started to evacuate Swedish tourists. But the first three planes, including an ambulance plane, that the Swedish government has organised arrived only today - on the 30th of December.

This slow reaction from the government is likely to cost further lives among the many wounded and infected. They have been compelled to wait for several days for evacuation – at best in overcrowded and in some cases very badly equipped Thai hospitals. In one hospital in Phang Nga - a place with bad hygiene and without air conditioning in the local heat - all the patients are believed to be infected. Aftonbladet (the biggest Daily newspaper in Scandinavia) of 30 December reported: ”Hundreds of Swedes who have been rescued now risk dying of infections in Thai hospitals”.

"They have no medicine, no air conditioning. The UD should have sent ambulance flights earlier," says Lotta Knutsson at Fritidsresor (a travel company). "The first ambulance flight takes off today."

Foreign minister, Laila Freivalds, who did not return from her holiday until more than 30 hours after the catastrophe became known, has now, in an act of self-preservation, gone down to Thailand. "She is welcome if she rolls up her sleeves and starts work," says a Swedish volunteer.

Another volunteer in Thailand is reported as saying: "Everything is so disorganised. We trusted the UD, but where are they, where is the Swedish military. Get them down here and let them start digging for bodies (in the sand). The Swedish church, where is it? We need people who can help. We thought the embassy would move down here and ‘point with their whole hand’ (give a lead). But there is no organisation at all".

"The anger triggered by the slow handling of the situation by the government is monumental”, writes Lena Mellin in an Aftonbladet commentary. The newspaper’s telephone exchange is reported to be blocked by furious citizens.

In an attempt to save the government from the anger, Prime Minister Göran Persson has declared a period of ”National Unity” with the support of other party leaders in the parliament. January 1 has been proclaimed a National Day of Mourning.

There is however now an incredible desire among ordinary people to do everything possible to help and express their sympathy with the victims of this catastrophe. Very large amounts of money are now streaming into the various relief organisations. There will also be a tremendous interest in discussing all aspects of this disaster, including a socialist programme that can prevent future repetitions of the catastrophe and reconstruct the worst affected areas around the Indian Ocean.

by this is sick Fri Dec 31, 2004 21:12

It is unbeliveable that some people posting here are trying to point score and are pointing the finger at 'capitalism' for the disaster in South East Asia.

Is it not obvious to those people that there are some events bigger than humanity and our kind. No amount of preparation by anyone irrespective of creed or political order would have been able to stop what is apparently the biggest natural disaster in recorded history.

Incidently I'd like to see what solutions 'socialism' could have offered instead of the aspects of capitalism which are being blamed. None have been suggested so far just the usual negativity from the left.

It's interesting also that this site judging from the timings of postings has only noticed this disaster yesterday. So much for the cutting edge 'journalism' of indymedia.

by pc Fri Dec 31, 2004 22:23

Indian officials tangled in bureaucratic red tape lost 30 precious minutes after they received an alert from an air force base in a remote island about the tsunami hurtling toward the coast, a government official admitted today

by Timer Fri Dec 31, 2004 22:34

I hate to have to upset your prejudice, but I might well ask YOU what effort YOU have made in that time to write something intelligent and post it here. That is what indymedia is about. Don't expect to be spoonfed. I also want to refer you to the following article which was posted on Sunday, Dec 26 2004, 4:18pm:

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=68049

by SP member - Socialist Party / CWI Fri Dec 31, 2004 22:38

micheailin o'cinnsealach said
“It doesn't take much money nor can it be attributed to the fault of global capitalism that countries in the Indian Ocean area do not encourage and promote even a volunteer contingent of website watchers and the building of early warning siren systems such as have been in use for decades to warn coastal-situated peoples in other places. There is no excuse for that quote above in my opinion.”

The question to be posed here is what are the real priorities of the ruling classes of the various countries. Remember that these countries are very poor by Western standards. Stephen King, of HSBC wrote: “Those that appear to have suffered the greatest loss of life are those that are also the poorest. Gross national income per capita in Sri Lanka is just $930 per annum. In Indonesia it’s $810 per annum. And in India it’s just $530 per annum. By contrast, the average American can expect to live off $37,610 per annum”. (Independent, 29 December). (The GDP of Sri Lanka is only equivalent to 5% of the US military budget.)

Indonesia

The Indonesian “province” of Aceh on the island of Sumatra is only 155 km from the epicentre of the earthquake. After several days the Indonesian government has finally given in to massive pressure to open up the closed war zone for international journalists and aid workers. The worst affected areas are the north-eastern coast from the capital Banda Aceh (on the northern edge of Sumatra) and the western coast down to the Meulabou district. Most of the houses have just disappeared. A journalist from a state news agency flew over the 200km-long coastline between Banda Aceh and Meulabou. He said that most of the area was under water and that there were very few signs of life.

10,000 had been counted dead in Melabou, of the town’s total population of 40,000.

It is unfortunately very difficult to get the aid work going in the area. There is no electricity, no fuel, no food, no water, no trucks. It is simply impossible to get there with what are now the most important things: Food, body bags and sanitary equipment, in order to stop epidemics, says the chief of UN OCHA Michael Enquist, according to AFP.

A spokesperson for nearly 100 doctors that had begun to gather in Banda Aceh also declared their inability to reach out with food and medicine to Aceh´s 4.3 million inhabitants.

In the meantime, the 100,000-man strong military occupation force is accused of achieving few results and giving priority to their own families.
Soon after the catastrophe, the Free Aceh Movement (GAM) declared a unilateral ceasefire in order to assure a safe aid work. GAM will only defend itself under direct attack.

The Indonesian military have also declared that they now were “too busy” to be able to hunt the rebels. This is a lie, according to Bakhtiar Abdullah, speaking for the exiled leadership of GAM.

“We have received reports that military operations still go on during this disaster, in order to trample on GAM in the mountains. At the same time international rescue workers have been stopped and seriously delayed on their way to Aceh. 28 Australian journalists have been stuck at the airport in Medan, outside Aceh. It doesn´t look very promising”, comments Bakhtiar Abdullah.

There is no solution in sight for the 30-year long armed struggle between the Indonesian government and Aceh’s liberation movement GAM.

A kind of phased peace agreement was reached in December 2002 after negotiations in Tokyo, sponsored by the US, Japan, EU and the World Bank. Since this agreement quickly broke down in the following months another 10,000 or so have been killed by Indonesian terror and armed clashes, according to GAM.

In reality both Jakarta and its imperialist allies see an independent Aceh as a dangerous example, that could open up a Pandora´s box of national demands that they would go very far to assure will never be allowed.

Thailand

Michael Hennigan said
“As to profit, the argument can be made that instead of having a spineless flunkey in charge at the Thai Met Office on a quiet Sunday morning, if there was an individual who had the imagination to grasp the gravity of the issue and the future of the tourist industry could also be a factor in making a decision to issue a warning. So the issue of profit can work both ways.”

Yes it can, but a lot of the time capitalist bureaucrats can be very short-sighted and this is clearly an example. Chcheep Mahachan of the Thailand seismological bureau said “A proper warning was not given. If we had given the warning and then it hadn’t happened, then it would have been the death of tourism in those areas.” The bureau chief, Sulamee Prachuab, said, “Five years ago, the meteorological department issued a warning of a possible wave after an earthquake in Papua New Guinea, but the tourism authority complained that such a warning would hurt tourism.” (Guardian 29.12.04) Capitalism’s need for profits takes precedence over human safety.

Time and time again the capitalist class will avoid spending a single penny unless they can see a viable financial return for their expenditure. They will call for consultant reports etc. and will prevaricate until ordinary working class people and peasants in the third world suffer the consequences of not being able to provide an added buck for the elite of the world. Fox news has had a queue of American politicians complaining about even the paltry sum promised by Bush on the grounds that it is not the concern of America and that America had no financial interests in the immediate area. They claim that all aid should come from donations of ordinary American people.

Countries in which earthquakes and tidal waves are always a risk should all be equipped with early warning systems. The cost is infinitesimal compared with the losses and costs of rescue and relief on the gigantic scale of that now needed. Even George Bush, trying to retain some credibility in the region has accepted the need for an early warning system in the Indian Ocean. Like Tony Blair, however, he remains on holiday. In London, the Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, simply issues platitudes about being “At the mercy of natural forces” and fails to set up even an efficient system for relatives to get information on British tourists in the disaster area.


Sri Lanka

The representatives of capitalism weep for the slaughtered innocents of Sri Lanka and Tamil Nadu today. They call for emergency action to save lives. But, as a letter in the Independent reminds its readers on 29 December: “According to the World Health Organisation, nearly 30,000 children under five die every day with preventable and treatable diseases being responsible for 70 per cent (21,000) of these deaths”. This daily death toll is preventable by the provision of the most basic of necessities that capitalism withholds.

The US government spends more than the rest of the world put together on arms. Its budget for financing the US army’s occupation in Iraq even next year is estimated by the Christian Science Monitor (published in Newsweek) as $212 - 232 billion – more than $4bn a week!

The Sri Lankan Army has, according to Tamil sources, blocked the transport of emergency supplies sent by Tamils abroad to reach the war-devastated North of the island.

In poverty-stricken Tamil Nadu, we can expect a repetition of what the journalist Peter Popham calls the “crafty manoeuvring of local political parties and politicians to ensure optimum seats on the gravy train”. There will undoubtedly be more aid going to the better connected victims of the disaster than the lowest caste and ‘dalit’ families who are bereft of even a means to earn a living.

There are reports that as many as 6,000 were killed by the Tsunami in Mullaithivu in North-East Sri Lanka. Of course, the 20 year long civil war has taken the lives of more than ten times this figure and left the whole of the North like a wasteland with little or no infrastructure. Now, it is the area least able to cope with a ‘natural disaster’ like a tidal wave and the Tamil-dominated North is given the least publicity over the fate of its citizens. Additional perils are the unexploded landmines uncovered by the wave and the damage done to agricultural land by the salt water that scoured the fields.

What has the Socialist Party in Ireland and the CWI done?

‘tired of mindless crap’ said
“How about you tell us what the SP plan on doing right NOW to help the people in the region. I suspect absoultly nothing.”

Of course anyone claim they are tired of mindless crap usually do not take any time to substantiate their claims.

The CWI has not been unaffected by this disaster.

A number of members of the United Socialist Party (cwi Sri Lanka) are missing, including comrade Piyatilake, a member of the USP's Central Committee who was living and working in Galle, one of the towns in the South of Sri Lanka to have been hardest hit by the 'Tsunami'. Relatives of other party members have been killed and the homes of many have been destroyed. News is being awaited of the fate of USP comrades from the Eastern coastal district - especially those from around Pottuil - where whole villages and towns have been destroyed. Fortunately the comrades of Dudiyora Horaata in India and the comrades we know in the Parti Socialis Malaysia, have informed the CWI that there has been no direct losses of life amongst their members.

The resources of the CWI and the SP would do very little in the overall context of the disaster that has unfolded. That is not to say we are ignoring the situation. Members of the USP in Sri Lanka have been actively participating in rescue efforts and party members have been making every effort to reach the affected areas. Joe Higgins immediately financed an emergency shipment of water-purifying tablets to Sri Lanka that will be administered by the USP. Members of the CWI internationally are making donations to assist the work of the USP at this critical time. As happened in Aceh, in Sri Lanka, the USP is publicising the fact that both Tamil and Sinhalese communities coming together to combat this tragedy. The Sri Lankan government has been spending millions of dollars over the past period re-equipping its army for a resumption of the civil war against the Tamil Tigers. The USP has been publicly demanding the immediate transfer of these funds to the relief effort. The USP is also demanding no discrimination in the distribution of aid on the basis of nationality, religion, political affiliation or caste. There should be the maximum democratic control over all aid and emergency programmes through elected committees of workers and poor people in each area and nationally.

On an international basis the CWI is demanding the cancellation of the foreign debt of the countries available.

Despite this I suspect that ‘tired of mindless crap’ will be just as ‘mindless’ as in his/her previous comment.

But remember this, as long as the capitalist class maintain control of resources, the downtrodden masses of this region are facing an unending nightmare. On a capitalist basis, Sri Lanka will never be able to fully develop its economy. For one thing, it cannot create the conditions for permanently solving the national conflict and is too weak to do anything except the bidding of blood-sucking imperialism. In the name of all the poor and exploited and the organised working class, the left parties must mobilise to bring relief to the disaster victims. But it must also redouble its efforts to build a workers’ movement on socialist policies capable of bringing about a transformation in the grim lives of workers and poor people of all creeds and nationalities. There is no point in waiting for capitalism and foreign aid to complete this task. Inherent in capitalism are wars, civil strife, exploitation and avoidable human disasters.

by . Fri Dec 31, 2004 23:06

About time someone stood up to this dont talk about it crap.

Capitalism failed to provide the resources for early warning.

They will fail to provide aid (like they did in Bam).

by Indy Freedom Sat Jan 01, 2005 01:43 indifreedom at eircom dot net

Global Capitalism is not at fault here. Why is it that the usual indy suspects are busy blaming the USA while they might be asking themselves what the real casualty figures are in Myanmar - a tyrranical socialist state with its head in the sand.

The US is not at fault re warnings. There was a space of hours between the earthquake and the arrival of the tsunami onshore. What more warning do you need? The problem was lack of education.

The US has now promised $350m in aid, and the UN has said that $1.2 in total has been pledged.

And still, not a single link from indymedia.ie to any aid agency...

Happy New Year.

by pc Sat Jan 01, 2005 01:53

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=68049&condense_comments=false#comment96537

by g11n Sat Jan 01, 2005 04:35

If it weren't for the globalisation of tourism and the corporate media, the victims of this terrible tragedy would have a harder struggle to recover.


But "people power", spurred on by television pictures, can put pressure on governments to increase their effort. It has happened in this case.

Indeed, Mr Kouchner observed that the "globalisation of tourism plays a role in this.

"If the Western public had not seen their compatriots stricken by the tsunamis, its response would probably not have been the same."


Blaming capitalism for this is as daft as George W Bush blaming it on Al-Qaeda.

by SP Member - Socialist Party / CWI Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:56

For the western media, it is clear that a tourist's tragedy is more important, Jeremy Seabrook
December 31st, Guardian.
The number of fishing boats from Sumatra, Sri Lanka and Tamil Nadu at sea when
the Boxing Day tsunami hit will never be known. There is scarcely any population
tally of the crowded coasts. Nameless people are consigned to unmarked graves;
in mosques and temples, makeshift mortuaries, people pull aside a cloth, a piece
of sacking, to see if those they loved lie beneath. As in all natural disasters,
the victims are overwhelmingly the poorest.
This time there was something different. The tsunami struck resorts where
westerners were on holiday. [Ed note: Please provide an intro/summary and link to an off site article rather then copying & pasting the whole thing in.Thanks PC 1 of IMC

by SP member - Socialist Party / CWI Sat Jan 01, 2005 13:10

The CWI can report with great relief, that after heroic efforts to establish the whereabouts of all its members, the United Socialist Party in Sri Lanka has found that it sustained no direct loss of life. The tsunami had crashed into areas where many USP members and their families lived and worked. One Central Committee member in Galle, comrade Piyatilake, was missing for days and the worst was feared. His workplace near the bus station was totally destroyed and two people beside him at the moment the wave struck were swept to their deaths. Piyatilake himself was found to have been severely injured and hospitalised but has now returned to his home to recover fully.

More than 25 USP members and their families in the South and East of the island are homeless, most living in make-shift camps and in urgent need of water, food, clothes and medicine. Many party members are suffering the loss of close relatives. All USP members could face problems of water shortages and the threat of diarrhoea and disease, but those in the worst hit areas will be most susceptible.

by Michael Hennigan Sat Jan 01, 2005 13:44

SP member, you have set out a detailed comment and I do not doubt your sincerity.

There is no perfect system and regions of poverty can always be pointed to as a failure of capitalism.

In China, where poverty levels have been reduced through industrialisation in the past two decades, there is still much to be done.

However, the poorest of the poor Chinese remain in remote provinces, ruled by village tyrants who are the local reps of the Communist Party. You may say that this isn't the type of system you want but beyond theorising about organising the poor, some benign God would have to select totally selfless organizers etc.

As to : 'Inherent in capitalism are wars, civil strife, exploitation and avoidable human disasters' Could be referring to North Korea?

The two Koreas are useful contrasts of the impact of 2 different systems. Which one would you prefer to live in?

Again as to wars etc, I guess some Tibetans might have something to say about the invasion of their country by Communist Chinese in 1959. Somebody else referred to Burma- frozen half a century behind other Asian countries, under the grip of a military gang. Pity people who have lived for decades in that tyranny.

One key issue that you should try and reconcile with the type of world organisational system that you advocate, is that you want sophisticated technological systems utilised but such technology is nver likely to be developed in a world run along the lines of pastoral communes which were promoted in the early 19th century.

In the heyday of the Soviet Union, while they were able to build large military/industrial projects, there was not one consumer product that the average capitalist slave in the West would have bought.

On a separate issue, the failure to follow up with promised relief to Bam, Iran has been referred to. What was required there was immediate relief. As an oil economy, seeking to be a nuclear power, Iran has the resources and access to funding why should it expect longterm aid?

by SP Member - Socialist Party / CWI Sat Jan 01, 2005 14:43

Your comments in relation to these countries are by and large correct and yes I would prefer to live in South Korea.

But that does not mean that I would not fight to change the South Korean regime. What I would not be doing would be trying to change it to the regime that exists in North Korea.

But remember, at a time when the West was quite happy to deal with the Stalinist regimes (just as they have been in China over the past period), the CWI was fighting these regimes. The CWI were in Tianamenn Square when the tanks rolled in.

The ability to change society does not originate because "some benign God would have to select totally selfless organizers etc." but from the ability of working class people to recognise their class interest and as a consequence organise to secure the future of society based on that interest.

No system is perfect, but genuine democratic socialism is infinitely more desirable than the crisis ridden, soul destroying system of capitalism.

Finally, in relation to Iran. Yes the country does have oil and does have wealth. But who controls it, not the working class of Iran. And who was responsible for putting the fundementalist regime in place - you got it - the USA and her allies.

The point to remember here is not whether Iran deserved this aid or not (the ordinary people certainly did) but the fact that promises made were not kept. This has been repeatedly the case and will be the case again in relation to this latest disaster.

by R. Isible Sat Jan 01, 2005 20:04

Counterpunch article by Gary Leupp on the history of tsunamis and the variety of philosophical reactions:
"Tens of thousands of mostly poor super-vulnerable people, drowned by mere meandering water, the origin and stuff of life. I hear that onlookers found the waves beautiful. The beauteous shit that happens on the global level comes and goes as naturally as it does in your bathroom or fertilized garden. We manage and contain the stench in those locales. But the planet-wide stench of decomposition and disease, and the bootless cries of the victims, now rise to deaf heaven. Enlightened humanity should respond with reason and compassion, demanding that human institutions (the best we've got) do what deaf heaven cannot do: place people over profits in our best, worst and only world."

by USP Sat Jan 01, 2005 22:05

Donate to cwi appeal 'Campaign Sri Lanka'
latest news and appeal for help
The devastation and escalating death toll in the Indian Ocean region can leave no one unmoved.
The response to disaster appeals around the world expresses far greater humanity and international solidarity among the millions contributing than the slow and 'stingy' responses of some of the richest governments like the USA and Britain.

Anger is beginning to replace sadness and bewilderment, especially as revelations are made about the lack of early warning systems that could have saved the majority of lives now lost. There is anger, too at the inadequate organising capacities of regional governments which are still hampering vital life-saving operations. Money has been found over decades for the military.

United Socialist Party in Sri Lanka

The CWI can report with great relief, that after heroic efforts to establish the whereabouts of all its members, the United Socialist Party in Sri Lanka has found that it sustained no direct loss of life. The tsunami had crashed into areas where many USP members and their families lived and worked. One Central Committee member in Galle, comrade Piyatilake, was missing for days and the worst was feared. His workplace near the bus station was totally destroyed and two people beside him at the moment the wave struck were swept to their deaths. Piyatilake himself was found to have been severely injured and hospitalised but has now returned to his home to recover fully.

More than 25 USP members and their families in the South and East of the island are homeless, most living in make-shift camps and in urgent need of water, food, clothes and medicine. Many party members are suffering the loss of close relatives. All USP members could face problems of water shortages and the threat of diarrhoea and disease, but those in the worst hit areas will be most susceptible.

The CWI is calling on all its members and supporters to come to the aid of the USP as it organises help and protection for its members. Financial donations can be made through our web-site or by post as explained already. With them we can arrange more shipments of water purifying tablets and medicines. We are also looking into ways of dispatching quickly some clothes and materials to provide shelter, plus basic foods, if that is appropriate.

Political response

While dealing with the very survival of its comrades, the USP will also be trying to get out with posters, leaflets, and papers to make a political response. The comrades will be aiming to expose the real causes of this disaster and the inadequate responses of the government. They will put forward a programme of demands for overcoming it.

Some of these are mentioned in material already on the web-site. Others will be developed as the party comes to terms with the situation. A big struggle will be to forge unity amongst workers and poor people and prevent any outbreaks of communal conflict as the struggle for scarce resources continues.

As the tsunami struck, Sri Lanka was beginning to recover from 20 years of civil war, which ravaged the North of the island and decimated its population. A real prospect of reconstruction existed, however limited under capitalism. Now millions of Sri Lanka's people and its very economy have been thrown back into a dark night of poverty, shortage and uncertainty.

Permanent solution only through struggle for socialist government
For a full and rapid recovery resources must be poured in, by imperialism - in the form of the World Bank and IMF - who have squeezed the population dry with their neo-liberalism and failed to put a few million into protection from the elements. All foreign debts should be immediately cancelled, not just repayment postponed.

The actual reconstruction needs to be controlled by elected committees of workers and poor people to ensure maximum assistance to those who most need it, regardless of nationality, religion and political affiliation. For a a permanent solution to the problems facing the workers and poor of Sri Lanka, the socialist transformation of society is necessary through the establishment of a government of their own directly elected representatives.

The United Socialist Party of Sri Lanka will be redoubling its efforts to build a powerful workers' party with a socialist programme. Its members need every support they can get in the hour of most need.

Your help

We appeal to you to organise as much financial support as possible in the first full week of 2005. A model appeal sheet is being posted on the CWI web-site.

On the 10 January, the comrades of the USP will again set out from Colombo to each of the worst-hit areas, hoping to take supplies for the most needy. Please rush your payments or offers of help to the CWI office - via the web-site, the e-mail or the post.

Donations should be made to:
'Campaign Sri Lanka'
donate online:
Add the words 'Campaign Sri Lanka' to the comment box.

directly through:
Lloyds TSB,
Leytonstone Branch,
Account number 0023293,
Sort code 20-95-03

or sent to:
Committee for a Workers' International,
PO Box 3688,
London,
Britain,
E11 1YE

Messages of support can be sent to the USP in Sri Lanka directly:
usp@wow.lk

and should be cc’ed to:
cwi@worldsoc.co.uk (in case the e-mail is not working).

by Kev Sun Jan 02, 2005 14:00

There is quite a contradiction between declaring that capitalist countries cannot and will not provide the infrastructure to lessen the impact of natural disasters, but then call for developing countries to copy their tsunami-warning systems and earthquake-proof buildings (with capitalist state money, too!).

Also, given that 150,000 people lie dead, I think the rest of us can be forgiven for not giving a shít about Comrade Piyatilake.
The same goes for all 25 party members inconvenienced by this disaster.
What's the story there: none dead and only 25 affected? The USP must be very small in number or very good at swimming.
Still, evey cloud has its silver lining, doesn't it?

"And still, not a single link from indymedia.ie to any aid agency..."
This is pretty appalling.

One other thing: did the USP propose building a tsunami-warning system BEFORE the tsunami struck?
Didn't think so...

by eeekkkk Sun Jan 02, 2005 16:55

look at front page - hit the picture of aisan mourner - lots of directions to relief agencies to donate to courtesy of iosaf.

by SP member - Socialist Party / CWI Sun Jan 02, 2005 18:14

You said "The same goes for all 25 party members inconvenienced by this disaster."

Having family members killed, having homes and belongings and jobs destroyed, suffering injury and facing disease, water and food shortages could hardly be described as an inconvenience.

Given that 150,000 have died is it not good to hear that some people have managed to survive when those around them were losing their lives (literally in the case of Piyatilake).

"One other thing: did the USP propose building a tsunami-warning system BEFORE the tsunami struck?
Didn't think so..."

The USP has consistantly called for investment in infrastructure (including warning systems for various natural phenomenon) rather than wasting the money on military spending to wage a civil war like the Sri Lankan government has been doing for years.

Seen as you have been so quick to ridicule the USP let me finish by asking you a couple of questions.

What effort have you made to help with the relief effort?

Have you physically lifted rubble off dead bodies, like members of the USP have?

Have you dug graves to bury these dead people, like members of the USP have?

Have you left your family to travel hundreds of miles to help in the relief effort, like members of the USP have?

Are you facing all the difficulties that members of USP face along with millions of others in this region?

Have you engaged in political activity to ensure that the Tamil people in Sri Lanka are not been discriminated against by the Sri Lankan military and suffer potential repression by the state as a result, like members of the USP have?

Didn't think so.....

by R. Isible Sun Jan 02, 2005 18:39

QUOTE: There is quite a contradiction between declaring that capitalist countries cannot and will not provide the infrastructure to lessen the impact of natural disasters, but then call for developing countries to copy their tsunami-warning systems and earthquake-proof buildings (with capitalist state money, too!).

How is that a "contradiction"? If a fraction of the money that goes into dropping bombs onto people in Afghanistan and Iraq went into tsunami-warning systems then there's a chance this disaster would have been less. One of the things I wondered about was the following: for a long time the USA has been in possession of a very nice satellite system that was designed to track nuclear submarines by watching for their surface-generated wake ( a very slight subtle one that's only detectable through noise-cancelling algorithms which get rid of the ambient wave patterns ). I find it hard to believe that they weren't aware very early on about the huge fecking wave.

Apart from that the fact is that research and development in technology is directed primarily towards finding neater ways to kill people instead of ways to save their lives (sure sometimes there are unintended spin-offs from these technologies but not as many positive benefits if the research were directed solely towards the goals of protecting and extending the lives of as many people as possible).


QUOTE: "Also, given that 150,000 people lie dead, I think the rest of us can be forgiven for not giving a shít about Comrade Piyatilake."

Ah, I think we can guess the depth of your feeling about the 150,000 people from the tenor of this remark. I can almost see the tears streaming down your humanitarian little face and plopping onto your trembling hands as you pen your bitter little missive.

QUOTE: "The USP must be very small in number or very good at swimming.
Still, evey cloud has its silver lining, doesn't it?"

And you go on to reinforce the impression. You're a gem.

QUOTE: ""And still, not a single link from indymedia.ie to any aid agency..."
This is pretty appalling."

What's appalling is your inability to read. "PC" corrected this clearly above and there's at least one post that does exactly this. Still, don't let the facts get in the way will you? It might mean that you have to change your mind.

QUOTE: "One other thing: did the USP propose building a tsunami-warning system BEFORE the tsunami struck?
Didn't think so..."

And now that the tsunami has struck and we're all aware of the problem will you be supporting a raise in your taxes in order to develop a tsunami-early-warning system?

How about the production of cheap, generic AIDS drugs for third-world countries?

How about water infrastructure for third-world countries?

Or malaria drug research?

How are you going to fund the above? How is it going to happen under the capitalist system? Are you going to sit back and wait for another disaster so you can send off your Band-Aid cheque?

by Kev Sun Jan 02, 2005 21:32

SP has asked me a number of questions to which the obvious and predictable answer is no.
The answer is no because I live in a country called Ireland, thousands of miles from the affected area.

Fair play to members of the USP if they are doing all those things - but they are hardly unique. Even the US Navy is helping out, and I doubt SP would change his opinion of them after that.

As other posters have commented, this is a pathetic attempt by political adolescents to make capital from a natural disaster.
Shame on them.

Like many pygmy organisations, their response to criticism is personal attacks on the critic, coupled with mindless rhetoric about "would you do this, would you do that".
Grow up, children.

by Michael Hennigan Sun Jan 02, 2005 21:46

The conference to be held in Jakarta later this week may speed up relief efforts. The big economic powers in the region- Japan, China, South Korea and Taiwan, have both helicopter and military transport aircraft which could make a huge contribution to the relief effort. However, the hostility between some of them may be a problem.

Indonesia Plans Tsunami Summit; Disaster Scope Widens

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000080&sid=aINnK7hr2Glc&refer=asia

by look mammy a big wave Mon Jan 03, 2005 00:50

....but since I didnt have the phone number for that area I just didnt do anything and I phoned noone with the information.

How believable is that?

Not very.

This whole news story has not added up

The American seismologists who I think are in Hawaii that knew about the massive earthquake didnt bother getting in touch with the governments, the bbc, sky, local tv and radio etc

While there might not be a dedicated warning system in the indian ocean there are communication networks. Those guys in Hawaii have a lot to answer for, they have blood on their hands.
You can bet that they warned the massive military base on Diego Garcia and that they would have been able to warn the countries affected.

by pc Mon Jan 03, 2005 01:17

didn't the indian ocean watches know about it too...

by Truth seeker Mon Jan 03, 2005 01:27

besides the bizzare lack of warnings from people who knew the "quake" had happened and the resulting
waves that would occur there is another point that the media seems to be totally ignoring and has just accepted as fact
There might have been no earthquake

There is a possibility that it could have been a neuclear explosion under the water. I am assuming by the Americans which would make it a lot more logical that they didnt warn anyone. They might have been testing but also might have wanted to show what they can do in order to intimidate another state.

------------------
http://www.counterpunch.org/rajiva12302004.html
Q: What are some other disturbances that can cause tsunamis?

A: Landslides or explosions such as underwater nuclear testing.


Q: Is underwater nuclear testing common?

A: Yes, The United States has conducted 1,054 tests of nuclear devices between July 16, 1945 and September 23, 1992.
-------------------------------------


When a bunch of American earthquake experts say it was a big earthquake and they didnt tell anyone cus they didnt have phone numbers I would ask some serious questions about what else they know and what they might have been trying to cover up.

They way the body count rose was strange and the way the donations have suddenly gone thru the roof is strange too.
Prevention would have been better and only cost a few million.
A phone call to a media broadcaster would have been even better and only cost 10 pence

by Sanity Mon Jan 03, 2005 04:19

"There is a possibility that it could have been a neuclear explosion under the water. I am assuming by the Americans which would make it a lot more logical that they didnt warn anyone. They might have been testing but also might have wanted to show what they can do in order to intimidate another state."

This has to the most crazy paranoid post ever. Tell me how a Nuclear explosion could of moved the crust of the Earth 1 inch? Why would they set off a Nuclear explosion in the Indian Ocean when it would end up running the risk of destroying their huge base at Diego Garcia?

by R. Isible Mon Jan 03, 2005 05:00

The counterpunch article I linked to and the wikipedia entry both show that there have been several quakes as large or larger in the past. They occurred hundreds of years before nuclear weapons were developed.

Beyond that I don't see why "they" would want to demonstrate that "they" had a nuclear weapon by secretly creating a tidal wave when they can already just point to the well-known existence of the worlds largest nuclear arsenal.

by Sane imc reader Mon Jan 03, 2005 14:44

Kev is like many on this site that are blinded by hatred of the SP/CWI that they are even willing to slag off those that were effected by the tsunami and mock their suffering just to score pathetic 'troll points'. Kev grow up.

by kev watch Thu Jan 06, 2005 18:02

for selling papers

by SPuppy SPotter Thu Jan 06, 2005 18:34

Why should anyone donate to the SP/CWI appeal, how do we know where the money will go? The CWI claim to have thousands of members so they should be able to look after the 25 USP members from their own resources.

Give money to reputable Development Agencies such as Trocaire, Concern, Oxfam, Goal. That way your money will go to those in need rather than going to build the CWI.

by da Thu Jan 06, 2005 21:22

Why have they bypassed the Un relief effort?
Why have they sent 2 Aircraft Carriers with 2000 Marines and dozens of attack helicopters to Acheh Province,where by their own standards, terrorists are in control? Why was the General who oversaw the Invasion of Baghdad given overall control of the "relief effort"? Exxon Mobile Oilfields that's why!!

No blackstuff in Sri Lanka or Thailand or on any of 1000 Maldive Islands, Just Acheh.

No damage on Diego Garcia for 2 reasons neither believable
(a) The Islands topology saved it from the wave, the coral reef broke the wave up as it approached. And..

(b)We had sufficient warning to move 100's of B2 bombers and Naval Vessels and sandbag all the Islands secret compounds up to a height of thirty feet. The island itself is 20ft above sea level at it's highest point.

(a) Does not fly, every island in the Indian Ocean has the same coral reef surrounding it. And
(b)Means they knew in advance.

Maybe not a nuke but an earthquake bomb which both the USA and Russia have made advances in.

by charity sceptic Fri Jan 07, 2005 00:02

SPuppie spotter are you seriously calling charities like Goal, Trocaire etc reputable? Have you seen what huge salaries the likes of John O'Shea and Justin Kilcullen give themselves? Its in the region of €100,000!

Another thing, how do you know this money will be spent properly? Will the funds just go to further the interests of EU/US imperialism or will in genuinly go to the people of Asia. One thing is certain about the money given to these charities, the people of these countries will have little say in how its spent.

I would much prefer to give my money directly to the labour movement in Sri Lanka rather then funding the lavish lifestyles of these hypocrite charity industry types and If I give the money to the Sri Lankan labour movement at least ordinary people will have a say in how its spent.

by Spuppy SPotter Fri Jan 07, 2005 20:00

It wont be distributed by the 'Sri Lanka Labour Movement'. It will go to the CWI who MIGHT give some of it to the USP. But the USP is hardly the 'Sri Lanka Labour Movement'. Their idea of relief is probably to print the sayings of the great Taafe.

by rooster Sat Jan 08, 2005 01:14

But for the system to work you must be able to inform millions of people right down to the last surfer or sun bather. How do you physically get the message out??????

Also, should an early warning system be set up, how often do these tsunamis happen in that particular region??????
It probably only happens every couple of centuries so the technology you put out will become obsolete in no time at all.

I think we just have to accept that this was an act of god and forget underwater nuclear earthquake bomb theories.

The critical importance of an effective communications system is highlighted by the fact that some people say they were unable to alert the authorities in their countries to the danger of the Asian earthquake. Samith Dhammasaroj, a meteorological expert in Thailand, realised that the massive ocean quake might produce a deadly tsunami but was unable to contact government officials to raise the alarm.

by Troll watch Sat Jan 08, 2005 14:21

SPuppy Spotter (aka pat) why don't your organisation give the £26m they recieved recently to the people in Asia?

by John McDermott - removefiannafail Sat Jan 08, 2005 15:15

Goal, Trocaire etc reputable?!!!
by charity sceptic Thursday, Jan 6 2005, 11:02pm


SPuppie spotter are you seriously calling charities like Goal, Trocaire etc reputable? Have you seen what huge salaries the likes of John O'Shea and Justin Kilcullen give themselves? Its in the region of €100,000!

Bertie,s spin doctors must have told him how good he will look, and how much free "goodwill" publicity he will generate among the electorate in Ireland,as he cynically tours the devastated areas of south east Asia,accompanied followed by his camp followers and the press,hanging on his utterences of sympathy and empathy and all the rest.
Maybe he could have added another 50,000 euros to the money the irish taxpayer is contributing to this terrible tragedy instead of going on an unnecessary junket to see what he can see on any television screen-at no expense to the taxpayer.
Considering he has only just returned from America,he manages to be out of the country more than he,s in it-always "on tour"-and still give his opponents in the Dail short shift ....fair dues to him ...crafty old weasel.
Nevertheless this latest publicity trip, on the backs of hundreds of thousands of dead is pretty low.As low as it gets.
His last propaganda exercise was even more G.U.B.U. (Grotesque Unprecedented. Bizarre.Unreal)
An Taoiseach Bert Ahern,s recent Damascus conversion to socialist principles was a shock to the body politic,and not least to the formerly isolated T.D. "Red" Joe Higgins,whose only suit of clothes disappeared into Bertie,s wardrobe quicker than you could say "Joe Stalin"
That Bertie,s diktat was followed by the Tanaiste,to the letter of the law -in guaranteeing jobs for life for all superflous state employees/Health sector workers(Aer Lingus etc. next) is even more authoritarian and pure Marxist dogma. What a remarkable administration,- that can combine communism, capitalism, and cronyism,in one cohesive and credible "collective"!
Thank heaven our non nuclear status disqualifies us from membership of the american "axis of evil" list.!

by Bright Eyes Sat Jan 08, 2005 16:35

Eh John, my understanding was that it was Bertie's brother Dermot who was going out to south east Asia. Or have I missed something?

by indeed Sat Jan 08, 2005 16:41

Three day visit of Dermot Ahern.

by fogy Sat Jan 08, 2005 18:43

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/internet/security/0,39020375,39183086,00.htm

by Spuppy SPotter Sat Jan 08, 2005 20:10

Who is Pat?

I wouldnt have anything to do with dodgy gangs who rob banks. I believe in the rule of law but you guys are more at home with the expropriators. The P/R/CIRA just do now what you would do if you could get away it. You all come from the same stable.

You Trotskyites are a danger to democracy and will be exposed. I have written to the Minister for Justice showing how you blackguards wish to overthrow the Irish Constitution and impose a Dictatorship. You should be banned under the Offences Against the State Act. Like the 'Republicans' (sic) you want to impose a Military Dictatorship.

You dont believe in Democracy and if you were in power Indymedia would be banned. You are abusing it for malign purposes.

by Kleisthenes Sun Jan 09, 2005 09:56

Hmmm Spuppy SPotter, I always thought that in a democracy, a true democracy that is, people of all political persuasions could put forward their manifestos and be heard in an impartial environment.

Of course, led by the United States of America, the world has been for sometime in an era of selective democracy. Two very good examples of this are firstly, the overthrow of the democratically elected Marxist government in Chile under Salvadore Allende by the United States in the early Seventies, and secondly, the demand by the USA for the removal of the right wing Freedom Party from the Austrian Coalition after Jorg Haider was democratically elected Governor of the Austrian province of Corinthia.

American styled democracy has not worked in the world because the USA uses its own brand of democracy as a guise for expanding not only its own economic empire, but also to achieve what Harold Pinter has referred to as Full Spectrum Control. People like you swallow American rhetoric hook, line and sinker. Under American styled democracy, the world has experienced more social, economic and military problems than ever before in its recent history, or at least post Pax Brittanica.

by toneore Mon Jan 10, 2005 05:29

the Manic Street Preachers CD notes - Harold Pinter v. People Dying in a Tsunami who might be rescued by a US Helicopter?

Under American styled democracy, the world has experienced more social, economic political progess than ever.

by Kleisthenes Mon Jan 10, 2005 06:58

Yeah, right. Iraq is a brilliant example of this.

by pat c Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:18

i hope i'm not the pat that was being reffered to here. (sabwatch has already mixed his pats up) i totally condemn the attacks on the cwi fundraising efforts. in this case the cwi are to be lauded for their efforts. it is totally sick to use this disaster as a cover to launch attacks on the cwi. if you have disagreements with them then base your polemics about policies and have the courage to post under your own name.

heres some more pieces whicxh might be of interest.
******************************************
As we said in our critique of the Kyoto accord;
Media Release: December, 2002
http://edmonton.iww.ca/press.html
Beyond Kyoto: CAPITALISM IS NOT SUSTAINABLE

this current crisis of the Tsunami and the wide spread destruction it created is a result of the rapid industrialization of the pacific region such as the destruction of traditional village life for industrial fishing, palm oil production and of course the creation of Nike factories inland.

*****************************************
Business interests left Asian coastal protection in tatters before the tsunami

The Guardian Thursday January 6, 2005

How the mangrove shield was lost

Powerful business interests left Asian coastal protection in tatters before
the tsunami, reports John Vidal

As the clear-up from the Asian tsunami starts and the full damage is assessed, there is growing consensus among scientists,
environmentalists and Asian fishing communities that the impact was considerably worsened by
tourist, shrimp farm and other industrial developments which have destroyed
or degraded mangrove forests and other natural sea defences.

Full story at:

by Socialist Mon Jan 10, 2005 13:32

We should not be fooled by a vast American conspiracy.
U.S. servicemen on the island of Diego Garcia did not suffer any casualties nor were B-52 stratofortresses (which carpet bomb Iraq and Afghanistan destroyed).
The only conclusion is the Tsunami disaster was the result of an undersea nuclear device which controlled the spread of the wave to destroy 156,000 people already suffering from the effects of global warming and rising sea due to the American CO2 output. The purpose of this act of mass murder by the warmonger Bush was to redeem his credibility after killing 100,000 Iraqis.
Therefore if we answer Bush's call to aid the people of South Asia we are merely helping his and the Bilderburgs' plans to dominate the globe with free trade and capitalism. Banda Aceh a triving city of traditional fishermen, industries, traditions and noble Eastern society will be replaced with shopping malls and sportswear factories.
If the equivalent number of people who died in the initial disaster sucumb to famine it can be blamed on America!

by rooster Wed Jan 12, 2005 13:37

and you will see that diego garcia is far far away from the epicentre of the earthquake, conspiracys, conspiracys, I know, why is abbeyshrule not affected?

by South African Friend of Ireland Wed Jan 12, 2005 14:32

Rooster, get yourself a brain !

by facts Wed Jan 12, 2005 18:17

Nobody died in Diego Garcia because it has a US and UK military base and therfore had a tsunami warning system.

Although the US military power is huge they are not yet capable of moving the worlds tetonic (forgive spelling!) plates and causing a tsunami!

by liam mc donald - humanbeings.ie Mon Feb 07, 2005 20:58 liampmcdonald at hotmail dot com

Global capitalism can only be disolved, not beaten. "Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth" Fat chance I hear you say, no chance against the ruthless bastards that run the system for their self seeking agendas. But by introducing an idealogy that can gather momentum, capitalism can be swamped with a tsunami of vision, communism with soul, see humanbeings.ie

by South African Friend of Ireland Tue Feb 08, 2005 09:50

I think you are really referring to the neo liberal model of capitalism. The social market paradigm ( sometimes referred to as The German Catholic Model) was more acceptable.

by real truth Tue May 24, 2005 00:06

Nobody died in Diego Garcia because it has a US and UK military base and therfore had a tsunami warning system.

-no, they have a meteorological observation centre, nothing to do withtsunamis at all!!!