2 french journalists have been kidnapped.

by merrovinginvanjan Mon Aug 30, 2004 19:11

The two men are Christian Chesnot and Georges Malbrunot.

This is the first time that a terrorist action has occured in Iraq with the stated objective of changing domestic and internal policy of a European State.

Previously citizens of States who are members of the "coalition of the willing" have been kidnapped and used as leverage to hasten the departure of their States from the Iraqi theatre. And with certain "success" for the terrorists. the Filipino army left as a result of one of it's citizens being kidnapped in such a way.

Italy as well has seen it's citizens kidnapped and killed, and amongst the demands placed on Italy by the terrorists were withdrawl of Italy ( a coalition member) from Iraq and the release of suspected AlQ members awaiting extradition to Spain in connection with the M11 bombing.

However France was not a member of the coalition of states that invaded Iraq. And this terrorist action has no stated objectives or demands within the jurisdiction of Iraq.

These two men Christian Chesnot and Georges Malbrunot have been kidnapped in an an attempt to undo a law which was passed democratically by majority vote by parties of both right and left in France.

At the link you can read the statements from Chirac, the prime minister, the foreign minister and the interior minister.

by toneore Tue Aug 31, 2004 00:14 toneore at eircom dot net

Let me pre-empt the usual guff from the usual suspects re: this post:

1. The French Govt is treating muslims badly because of this law.
2. headscarves are not about religion but culture.

a. This is a good law, it applies to ALL religious symbols and to STATE run schools. It should have been passed years ago and should also be adopted in Ireland. In truth, most women don't like the headscarf anyway.

2. This IS about religion, not cultural diversity. I'm sure the fellow travellers of terrorism would have plenty to post about in support of a "ban" if it were about people wearing dog collars in Ireland. If you want to respect people starting with taking on Islam's attitude to women and other religions.

by mr vgvj Wed Sep 01, 2004 03:36

in the last five hours, that the two men may be released later today. Unconfirmed means that the channel used has not previously been used to communicate the wishes / threats / boasts of the group implicated in the act, the same group who recently murdered an Italian. It could be "reliable" and then answer the calls and prayers of French muslims, journalists and the whole civil society bunch, or it could be a very cruel attempt to garner even more publicity.

This group may I remind you all, did not exist, before the USA under the leadership of Bush entered Iraq, even if US owned media insist in calling it "Al Q".
And neither Mr Bush nor Mr Kerry have had the decency to present the European allies and friends of the American people with an even theoretical solution to this problem.

In this last day, a woman has also suicide bombed Moscow killing many whilst Pres. Chirac met with Pres. Putin.

Also in Isreal for the first time in five months, a suicide bomber has killed a bus load of people.

by RK Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:00

And now 200 kids are being held hostage by some fanatical nutjobs with explosives strapped to them in Southern Ossetia, near Chechnya. After the bomb on the subway yesterday and the 2 planes last week, these chechen scumbags are really excelling themselves, even by their own vile standards. Add into that the b@stard who killed those people on the bus in Israel. What a lovely time it is.

Anyway, let's just hope that those kids get out alive and then let the Russians send in the Spetsnatz and fillet the f*ckers.

Once it doesn't turn into another theatre siege situation.

by iosaf Wed Sep 01, 2004 17:31

(at the link)

meanwhile my bloggy thoughts-

this afternoon's indications are that the two journalists are still alive. And lucky with it.
But they're still hostages. There really is quite a list of hostages at the moment.

Years ago, if you were taken hostage by islamic terrorists groupings, you could face a stay of anything up to five years. In those days the groups that did that sort of thing avoided "executing" thier hostages, so as not to attract the heavy gunning weight of their western enemies.

Now thanks to Mr Bush, they've had 17 months to assess the heavy gunning weight of their enemies and yet still control vital areas of Iraq, including the majority of suburban residential Baghdad where US patrol deaths are now peaking.

The terrorists have accordingly sped up the average hostage stay to less than two weeks from kidnap to murder to network distribution of the snuff video.

And there doesn't appear to be a big stick with which to threaten to wallop them with anymore.

by iosaf - "back from holidays" Thu Sep 02, 2004 19:54

A short reflection on the current terrorist crises effecting France, Russia
The French ambassador to Iraq has reported this afternoon that the two kidnapped journalists are "healthy", "in good spirits" and "well treated".

The Russian authorities report that 31 people were released from the School where Chechnyan terrorists are holding several hundred people including over 130 children.
I remarked earlier this week, that several years ago, if you were kidnapped by an Islamic Fundamentalist group you could face a stay in captivity which averaged four years.

In today's post Bush war on Iraq / Terrorism, the average stay in captivity has proved to be three weeks, and most captives have ended by being murdered and a significant number have ended in snuff videos.

So France is "moving everything it can" to end the crises. France has the second largest diplomatic organisation in the world.
It is only "outpowered" by the Americans.

In the last week, we have seen how they can use that organisation, one which maintained that the war on terror ought not open a front in Iraq. One which maintained that there were no WMD in Iraq. One which has sought to balance a history as a colonial power in islamic countries and victim of islamic terrorism in it's own territory with the resulting society made up with generations of mass immigration and accordingly the largest muslim population of any EU state.

The result has proved quite an impressive array of moblisation.
and it is really interesting to watch.
It's not American. nor is it british.

All muslim groups in France have now called for the release of the journalists.
Key muslim communities in Bagdhad have called for the release of the journalists.
the kernal of the Arab League states have proved keen to assist. Egypt and Jordan providing much appreciated support.
today's information is more reliant, other groups and media mouthpieces that usually exploit such crises appear to be silenced by the application of diplomatic pressure. And we are now informed that the group which holds the two men is itself "split". And we are *not* being told blythely that this group is "Al Qaeda" or is directed by the notorious Jordanian "Zuarwqwark". It appears Old Europe has a very different style. Today the Exterior Minister finishes a second visit to Jordan and for the moment attention focuses on efforts within Iraq. A delegation of French muslim clerics and community leaders is presently in Bagdhad. It is thought their task is to re-assure communties there as to the reality of life in a multi-ethnic and western multi-cultural society is not quite as incompatible with Islam as some would tell them. and perhaps that the closest they'll ever get (or ever have got) to allies in the West will involve France.

Yet the journalists are still held captive.

France has consistently sided with Russia on the UN Security Council and it was as a result of their pressure that the "leave by date" which shall see the USA depart Iraq was "provisionally" set for early 2005.
There is little that France (or Russia) can do now to speed up that withdrawl. And France (and Russia) have recognised the Allawi state.

The russians now face simliar blackmail.

They are to end the war or the schoolchildren and the teachers will die. One thing I have noted about islamic terrorism in it's modern form, is the very traditional style of demand. Gone are the long kidnappings of Anglican envoys and thier assistants and complex negotiations relating more often than not to publicity, and prisoner exchanges etc.,
Now the groups appear to have returned to very simple and therefore generally thought to be more "unworkable" demands - "end our war", "change your law".

We have seen how the Russians reacted in the Theatre incident, but Russians today are already shocked by the loss of airplanes last week. They might be spoiling for less of a fight.

But what are they to do?
Likewise what is France to do?

background Russian Planes downed:-
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=66357&type=otherpress
background French journalists:-
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=66369&type=otherpress
Update Russia-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,2763,1295824,00.html
Update France-
http://libe.com/page.php?Article=235789

by iosaf Thu Sep 02, 2004 20:06

But is in contrast to how one would expect either American or British media reports, conspiciously absent.
Tonight saw the first mention of the spooks-
http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=235729
Basically in one of those phantasmagoria style jesuitic refusals to confirm or deny, the DGSE top brass just could be (plausibly / possibly) "out of jurisdiction" in Bagdhad.

And as you know that would get up loads of people noses if it were true not just Agent Smith or his british chum Mr Bond.
Not least of all one bunch of people who have not been mentioned this last week in connection with the hostage crises, Agent David and crew.
Yesterday saw a young islamic fundamentalist arrested for his presumed role in burning the Parisien Jewish Social Centre to the ground in August. And one thing I'll intuitively tell you, in this hallway of strange portals - all the doors lead "eventually" to Iran.

by Ciaron - Dublin Catholic Worker Thu Sep 02, 2004 20:21

My advice is that French high school students launch a mass nonviolent civil disobedience campaign for free expression and all start wearing the veil to school (not necessarily 24/7.... just to school) and open direct negotiations with the hostage takers.

by shalom Thu Sep 02, 2004 20:28

In any case Russia or especially France should not do what these kidnappers demand. You can never surrender to terrorism. This is very dangerous road. I am not heartless humanbeing but i rather see these kidnapped inviduals getting killed by terrorists than France changing its laws under pressure. Where would it end? Everytime you accept their demands they will ask more. Some day their demand will be to erect European wide islamic society with sharia law. Israel is the only country today that fully understands what it takes to crush terrorism. That is you do not negotiate with terrorists, not in any circumstances, not even if your own child is being kidnapped. It takes tough character to keep your cool and do the right thing in this kind of events. But those who are in command have to do so. This is why ex-soldiers like Ariel Sharon are exellent leaders, they do not hesitate like regular politicians. The only language these terrorists understand is the language of guns and bullets. Never should any country put life of inviduals or single crisis ahead of the big picture. You can lose one, two or ten battles, but you cannot lose the war. If you lose these animals will butcher us like pigs. And i mean all of us.

by iosaf Thu Sep 02, 2004 21:32

one of the phrases which always appears in anglosaxon diplomacy has not been used by the French-
"we refuse to negotiate with terrorists".

And the Russians are quite probably more on track with your preferred approach. Not that that will prevent more of such attacks as surely Israelis have to their chagrin learnt.

As for "everyone wearing a veil" to school, why not a Big crucifix or Kippa?

Personally (as a teacher) I don't think the daughters of Muslim fathers are any more at risk today of being corrupted by Western values in school than they were last term. And I think many sons of Muslim fathers and mothers might grow up with values in relation to their female fellow students which are more in keeping with the values of the republic as primarily communicated through it's state school system. I don't think last year such an equality between students was possible.
You can't learn properly as a little boy what women are about if your half your classmates are wearing veils of differing coverage and some of the others have their first ear and nose rings. I've always thought the ostentatious religious symbol ban would help adolescent boys more than their sisters, but every commentator to a single one, went down the "feminist"/"religious" road. Which is why I'm so smugly clever.
lol ;-)

by very discreetly bim bam. Fri Sep 03, 2004 04:11

so it's wrapping up.
very subtle that one.
so subtle you might have missed it.

The 2 journalists [and their 20 year old chauffeur Syrian born Mohamed Al-Joundi ]have been reported to be well, and "on their way to freedom".

The French Minister of Culture and Communication Donnedieu de Vabres has issued a statement in the French Catalan city of Perpignan last night that the trio are no longer in the captivity of their initial molestors and will proceed from their new "hosts" ("who are close to the French authorities") to full liberty at a "prudently secured" location tomorrow.

This statement has been confirmed by the Ministry of the Exterior.

what happend and how it developed-
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=66369

by unreliable englanders? Fri Sep 03, 2004 13:30

very interesting.

So we have all the French papers and the French government on one side saying they are no longer in the clutches of their original captors and Reuters and the American Press saying the original captors have denied any delegation of their negotiating or transfer of the prisoners.

http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1296658,00.html

told you it would get up peoples' noses.

by iosaf Sat Sep 04, 2004 02:39

who have spent the last few days in Baghdad working for the release of the two journalists and improving bilateral cultural understanding between French muslims effected by the veil ban and Iraqi muslims of both Sh'ite and Sunni persuasion in the troubled areas of Baghdad and adjoining areas (known to most as being home to Al Sadr and you know "that shrine") are going home today.
The leaders of the Sunni muslim community in Iraq are remaining very upbeat that the release is only a matter of time.
Jack Straw of the UK for his part has become the most high ranking spokesperson to express doubt.
The French Government are today being very prudently quiet.
A repeat demonstration has been called for Paris's town hall by muslim groups and shall be supported by Reporters without Frontiers.

by think hope believe - where do you want to got today? Tue Dec 21, 2004 20:01

good news - no?

by christmas elf. Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:11

To the surprise of many, of course lots of people want to know more, perhaps they ought go to a warzone and go through similiar ordeals, but politics is like that, people see opportunity to attack the other party and so on. The whole thing surprised quite a few people, and indeed there has been a murkiness of sources and reliability of information in the last months.

Malbrunot for his part, has condemned the inteference of Didier Julia and called for him to be ostracised.

This is called the "Julia affair" will be front page francophone news tomorrow.
you can get a sketch on wikipedia the free software online encyclopedia here-
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_Julia

The Julia affair led to the "hope" that the men be released in October. I chose not to report it.

I did however report the other false hope the previous month, based on the statement by Renaud Donnedieu de Vabres in Perpignan.
http://archquo.nouvelobs.com/cgi/articles?ad=etranger/20040902.OBS6044.html&datebase=20040902
which was quashed by Jack Straw. a name hasn't been given to that "affair". British commentators are suspicious that Money changd hands, but we can be pretty sure it wasn't in northern bank notes.

Their driver was released in November.
What began as a terrorist incident and attempt to influence the internal policy of a EU state, has ended happily in that the men are free, through the ordeal, and hopefully _calming down_ and getting ready to enjoy a peaceful christmas and new year.

Liberation posits that French diplomacy has come out badly from this, quoting someone from the DGSE as saying "if we had been asked for a ransom we would have paid it, we were a bit annoyed we weren't". Whereas the right wing credit the DGSE, Chirac (as usual) has offered the opinion that the whole affair brought France together as a nation.

I don't doubt that many in France's internal murkiness will attempt to make hay out of the initial statements and reactions to the release of the two men, but it is worth considering that they have gone somewhere very few so far have returned from.

The leader of the French socialists and a hopeful for the elysee in the future has chosen to use that awful phrase "someday the truth will out". Oh yes quite, trouble is the truth is normally out, and no-one gets it.

Bon Nöel!
Monsieurs Chesnut et Malbrunot.

you may read of other cases of interest to "Reporters Sans Frontiers" (rsf) at their website-
we all are hoping that 2005 will see freedom of the press and the safety of journalists and web activists who underpin "your freedom of thought and expression and Liberty " improve greatly.
Marianne has gone and copyrighted an origami silly girl, the chinese emperor will get her with his terracota worker minions (see the RSF site to know what i'm on about).
http://www.rsf.org/