SP and SWP candidates announced

by Mini Tallyman Tue Apr 20, 2004 17:19

So far here are the other left candidates running in Dublin:

John O Neill (Irish Socialist Network): Finglas.

Joan Collins (Anti Bin Tax): Crumlin

Ciaran Perry (Working Class Action): Cabra

Joe Mooney (WCA): North Inner City

Pat Wall (Anti Bin Tax): Walkinstown

All these have been campaigning for some time now, and although they will be hard pushed to win seats, they certainly will put in a creditable performance. My money is on Perry, Collins and maybe O Neill to win seats.

by bd Tue Apr 20, 2004 17:21

dont vote! voting achieves nothing...

if voting changed anything they'd make it illegal!

by observer Tue Apr 20, 2004 17:32

Wish I was your bookie Mini Tallyman - Not a chance - none of them.

by xIAWM Tue Apr 20, 2004 17:43

MICHAEL O'BRIEN, aged 27, ..., and is a leading organiser and steering committee member of the Irish Anti-War Movement.

Leading Organiser?
Showed as much leadership as a dead parrot.
Really let down the Socialist Party on the IAWM committee by blindly following the SWP line.

At least he was honest enough to tell the IAWM delegates meeting that he intended to run for office. RBB never said a word, despite being repeatedly asked to confirm or deny.

by Del Tue Apr 20, 2004 17:55

She is listed as running for the SWP. Is she still the USI Environmental Officer?

by Dermot L Tue Apr 20, 2004 18:15

In the same way that "Christy Moore" is also running, I think its just a coincidence of names! Either that or USI's Joyce Power has really let herself go!

by Mini Tallyman Tue Apr 20, 2004 18:26

Does observer have inside info? On what basis does he scoff at the nags I've backed?

Im a fairly keen observer of the far left scene and I'd certainly put money on Perry and Collins. They are campaigning like hell and will defintiely be fighting for a seat. O Neill is more of an outside chance but he's defintinitely not a no-hoper.

Would observer care a little wager? Lets say, just to be safe, for Collins and Perry to win seats and O Neill to get about 900 votes?

by hs - sp Tue Apr 20, 2004 18:59

Good luck to everyone involved except of course the SWP candidates in Dundrum and South West Inner City. : -)

by observer Tue Apr 20, 2004 19:07

I'll give you 3/1 that not one will be elected.

by Kev - @socialistparty.net Tue Apr 20, 2004 19:25

"the SP out do the SWP on this front. The SP site has flashy pics of all their candidates."

Yeah, its amazing what you can do in ten minutes with Fireworks and a slight colour hue change. They do look nice though don't they? :-p

Incidently, I do hope to be adding more stuff in the near future...

by Mini Tallyman Tue Apr 20, 2004 20:42

You're on, observer! How about a tenner then at 3/1? We'll work out a way of passing the dosh over when the time comes.

You know you are making a very generous offer. I'd bet my oul granny on it that at least one of them gets a seat. Look forward to a few pints at your expense!

by Sean Tue Apr 20, 2004 22:44

Excuse my ignorance but why are their two "Socialist" Partys ? what is the difference between them ?

by Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Tue Apr 20, 2004 22:49

just as there are more than 2 capitalist parties.

Different people have different ideas about what socialism is and how to obtain it.

Your best bet to answer your question about differences is to look at the web sites of the parties that you are interested in. Use http://www.google.com to find their home pages.

Opponents/supporters of the various socialist or whatever parties should not take this question as a starting point for a debate about the relative merits of their parties or groups.

by observer Wed Apr 21, 2004 02:04

I'll lay my 300 to your 100.

by Martha Stewart Wed Apr 21, 2004 02:05

Nobody votes for these parties anyway. You'd be as well off giving your money to the missions.

Mind you, these tiny parties are suspiciously well funded, glossy brochures, the lot. it sure as hell isn't big business that's funding them.

Very suspicious.

by Joe McCarthy Wed Apr 21, 2004 09:54

Martha you are just right, bloody commies with their Mosgow gold.

by Truth Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:33

"Nobody votes for these parties anyway. You'd be as well off giving your money to the missions."

Not true, these candidates (other than most of the SWpers) will mostly get very respectable votes and I am sure a handful will be elected.
So you reckon we should give our money to the missions?? For what? Less time in purgatory? or for the Catholic church to continue their cultural crusade by fooling people into believing in things like god when it is food and jobs they need not a hocus pocus 'faith'. You opus Dei/ Legion of Mary people should just go and fuck off, people don't want your 'religion' any longer. All it ever brought was misery and child abuse. Remember it was the priests who got stuck into lovely steaks while the people starved during the famine.

"Mind you, these tiny parties are suspiciously well funded, glossy brochures, the lot. it sure as hell isn't big business that's funding them."
I don't know what planet you're living on, but these parties are certainly not well funded and do not have glossy leaflets. Look at the reports of the public offices commission. They outline exactly how much money is soent on election campaigns, compared with the big parties like Labour, SF, greens, FF, FG, PD etc they spend fuck all on elections.

by seedot Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:34

I'll take some of that 300 if mini-tallyman won't cover the whole lot.

Anybody want to quote a price for Royston being embarassed?

Maybe a joint Indymedia / Betdaq initiative is required - get some use out of the politicians.

by Observer Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:35

They are big because people vote for them!

by Local Tallyman Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:46

Local Tallyman is well aware of candidates from the other small parties/groups as well as the anti bin tax independents. My intention was to put up a posting announcing their candiditure along with candidates from the Workers Party. Unfortunatey I am finding it hard to get info on the WP's candidates.

I also intend to do regular reviews of local election literature and the websites of the various left parties and candidates.

I might as well announce the candidates from the smaller groups

John O'Neill, Irish Socialist Network - Dublin City (Finglas)
Cieran Perry, Working Class Action - Dublin City (Cabra - Glasnevin)
Joe Mooney, Working Class Action - Dublin City (North West Inner City)
Joan Collins, Anti Bin Tax Independent - Dublin City (Crumlin - Kimmage)
Pat Wall, Anti Bin Tax Independent - Dublin City (Crumlin - Kimmage)
Pat Dunne, Anti Bin Tax Independent - South Dublin (Rathfarnham - Terenure)

Unfortunately Local Tallyman hasn't been able to get his hands on leaflets or websites for any of these candidates.

by Local Tallyman Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:13

Local Tallyman has been keeping his ear to the ground and has been looking at the various campaigns that have been going on. Local Tallyman believes that the SP will significantly increase their vote on the last local elections, Joe Higgins profile and the profile of the party has increased significantly in the last 2 years. However Local Tallyman reckons this may not be reflected in an equal increase in council seats, a classis casebook example of the disproportionality of our 'PR' electoral system. In saying this Tallyman reckons the 2 SP council seats are safe in Fingal. Kenehan could pick up a seat on the Town Council but is an outsider for the County Council seat, as is Fitzgerald and Greene. Tallyman has been keeping an eye on Rivervalley recently and can confirm that O'Brien might just pick up the SP's 3rd council seat in Fingal, transfers from Daly will be crucial though. It looks like Daly will top the poll on the first count. Outside of Fingal things are also interesting for the SP. Murphy in Tallaght central was close last time but is faced with stern opposition from sitting SF councillor Mark Daly, however Daly's position on bin tax could see Murphy picking up many former SF votes. For Murphy it will be close, he will be competing for the last seat. In the City, Naessens will get a decent vote but is unlikely to take a seat. In DLR, Maher could well upset the odds and take a seat for the SP. Dundrum is surprisingly quite a working class area and the SP will benefit from Dundrum being a 6 seater. Maher stood in this area before in the general election so has a profile, like Murphy I think it she will be fighting for the 6th seat with SF. Outside of Dublin, Tallyman doesn't think Golden or Gallagher will win seats. Mick Barry could well though, he was close last time and like Maher stood in the general election so has maintained a good profile.

The SWP have traditionally a very very poor record at elections. In the last locals, Wingfield for example got just 69 votes in the Ballymun ward, he will hope to increase that again this time but I wouldn't bank on him hitting the 100 mark. Of all the SWP candidates Richard Boyd Barrett and Brid Smith are probably the only candidates that will achieve decent respectable votes. Their election is another story. Tallyman can't see Smith taking a seat, she is in a 3 seater which will mean that she will realistically have to beat SF on the first count if she wants a chance, something Tallyman believes is beyond her grasp. Boyd Barrett has a very big profile because of his work in the IAWM and many local campaigns. He will undoubtedly be aiming at a liberal anti war constituency in Dun Laoghaire, however he will find it tough as he will be running against Labour's Roger Cole who will also aim at that group. On Bin Tax, Boyd Barrett will pick up alot of votes, he has done alot of work on the issue. Boyd Barrett also benefits from standing in the general elections before, he has a machine and a profile. Tallyman reckons he could well be in with a chance of taking the 4th seat. As I said before the rest of the SWP candidates will not do as well and will probably repeat the traditional vote the SWP will get, Tallyman does not want to bore his readers by listing off all the other SWPers again so I will leave it at that.. Tallyman does believe that there are potential upsets in Bray for the SWP. Catherine Kennedy is a seasoned campaigner in the Bray area and in the last general election did pick up a decent vote, as the quota is at about 600 for the Bray Town Council I would not rule out her taking a seat or at least coming close. Kennedy's running mate Joyce Power is an unknown and a bit of a dark horse, Power like Kennedy could well do very well in these elections. Another person of note in the SWP's slate is Christy Moore, Tallyman is aware of Christy and he does have a good reputation in the bin tax battle, Christy could well get a decent vote, he will get votes for having a famous name at least!!

Overviews of the other camps to coem soon, watch this space.....

by John Wed Apr 21, 2004 13:04

Can the SP or SWP publish a list of countries with socialist governments, so the Irish electorate can compare their performance with that of the capitalist government in Ireland? Is Cuba one? Or North Korea? Or is this thing socialism something completely new thats never been tried anywhere else before.

by commenter Wed Apr 21, 2004 13:23

John,
Both parties would contend that there is no socialist governments in power anywhere in the world. The SWP would argue that Cuba is actually a capitalist state as is North Korea. The SP position is more complex, they would say that Cuba is a state with a state owned and planned economy (which brings many advantages such as heath education etc) but it is undemocratic in the extreme and therefore the Cuban people should overthrown the Castro dictatorship while maintaining the planned and state owned economy. The SP would also argue that even when this is done it will still not necessarily be socialism, as the SP would believe that for socialism to develop it must be on an international basis.

by Kevin Wed Apr 21, 2004 14:38

The Workers' Party has selected the following candidates that I'm aware of:-

DUBLIN CITY COUNCIL
Ballymun Whitehall - John Dunne
Finglas - Owen Martin
Ballyfermot - Andrew McGuinness
Crumlin-Kimmage: Brendan Phelan

CORK CITY COUNCIL
North East Ward: Ted Tynan
North West Ward: Mick Crowley

WATERFORD CITY COUNCIL
Ward 1: Cllr. Davy Walsh
Ward 2: not sure
Ward 3: Cllr John Halligan and Cllr. Billy McCarthy.

I think Peter Short is running in Dundalk.

by The real alternative Wed Apr 21, 2004 15:36

Below is a list of the already elected representatives of Sinn Féin. The list of candidates, many of whom, despite government demonisation, will me elected, is far more extensive.

While I applaud anyone standing on a left-wing platform, isn't it better to engage in a party that has a substantive potential to implement change?

[ Long, long list of candidates edited out because it made thread hard to read. If you want to provide an URL with these details then I'll add that in instead - R. Isible 1 of IMC Ed.]

by John Wed Apr 21, 2004 15:55

Thank you commenter for that informative comment. So, there are no socialist governments anywhere in the world? If Ireland elects one it will be the first. Really! If I went to the doctor with some ailment and he gave me tablets and told me they had never been tried before, I'd tell him to stuff them. And Cuba is a capitalist state? Well, blow me down! I can see a pattern in all this. A government comes to power that calls itself socialist. Its held up as an example by socialists worldwide. Five years later when it has destroyed the economy and everyone is trying to flee to the country, the socialists elsewhere disown it and say its actually a capitalist government. So, socialism can never be shown to be a failure because, when it fails, socialists elsewhere simply say it wasn't socialism at all but capitalism. Even when its Fidel Castro thats running it.

by Doctor Yamamoto Wed Apr 21, 2004 16:04

Every group has their own different view on what constitutes a socialist country. It's not a case of simply attaching and reoving labels. You can see in the publications of any group you choose to deal with what they understand as a socialist society and form an opinion based on that.
If someone claims to be putting an idea into practice and makes a balls of it, that doesn't neccessarily discredit the idea.
As for "It's not been tried to I can't trust it"
How do you think the present system came about? People sat down and wrote long pieces about elections and parliamentary democracy for centuries before it was actually put into practice. I'm pretty sure that a few centuries back anyone advocating universal sufferage would have had a hard time been taken seriously.
But it's pretty obvious to anyone willing to take a moment to consider it that you can't put an idea into practice without formulating the idea first.

by Mark Hoskins - Socialist Party, Drogheda Wed Apr 21, 2004 16:29

Just in reply to mini Tallyman,
Frank Gallagher's campaign is going very well and he has a really good chance of getting elected mainly because the existing councilors in the ward are in big trouble. Outside of those three the only competition is Dom Wilton of Sinn Fein. So while I feel that the election of Frank Gallagher to the Drogheda Borough council is no foregone conclusion, it would be wrong to write him off just because he is based outside Dublin and is standing where we have never stood before.

by socialist Wed Apr 21, 2004 16:48

Thinks that capitalism is the finished form of human society. We have evolved from apes, gone through primative communism, slave society, feudalism then capitalism over the last 250 years out of the 4 billion years since the gases cooled to form a solid sphere.

And so it all ends, production in world society will never be subjected to a rational democratic plan that will meet everybody's needs and protect the environment. The ultimatlely defeated attempts in the Soviet Union and so on mean that it is pure folly to argue for fundamental change.

Cynical clap trap!!

by Jackie Derrida Wed Apr 21, 2004 17:35

Isn't it bizarre how many people have attached themselves to Fukuyama's unltra-conservative declaration of the "end of history"?

A George Bernard Shaw quote is salient here (forgive me if I parahrase): "You see things that are and ask why; I see things that never were and ask why not."

It is patently absurd (as pointed out by the last contributor) to believe that we have reached, in liberal capitalism, the highest state of human development. Not only is it absurd to presuppose that human beings are no longer in a state of flux, of development and change, it is, moreover, absurd to suggest that our current order, in which we have greater economic advantage than at any time in history, yet there is greater human suffering than ever before, represents the zenith of human experience. It is, rather, a regression.

by real alternative?? - lefty Wed Apr 21, 2004 17:54

"While I applaud anyone standing on a left-wing platform, isn't it better to engage in a party that has a substantive potential to implement change?"

Wheres the implementation of change?

In government in a sectarian assembly SF failed to implement any significant changes and actually frightened the way the took to the whole rotten establishment like a fish to water.

SF appears to be the new Fianna Fail with access to guns or to be precise- with access to the IRA who have access to guns.

If they continue their emersion into the swill in the Dail/assembly it won't be long untill they start purging themselves of the less attractive elements of SF like exprisoners etc.

Dont be conned
the IRA beat kids for stealing cars and they IRA hijack them-

chase petty criminals and rob banks-

want a united ireland and control all border smuggling-

complain about RUC interrogation and shoot alleged touts-

etc etc etc

by Paul Moloney - ISN Wed Apr 21, 2004 18:55 irishsocialistnetwork at dublin dot ie

If you want copies of some of our election literature, drop me a line at the email address provided and I can send you copies.
Or anybody else for that matter.

by shinner. Wed Apr 21, 2004 18:58

Sinn Fein have yet to compile a final list of our candidates for the local elections, however we will be running over two hundred candidates in the twenty six counties. In Dublin we will be running 30 candidates in the twenty eight electoral areas, the largest ever election team for the party. Currently we have sixty six elected councilliours in the twenty six counties. That number will double after june 11th.

by The Lark Wed Apr 21, 2004 19:27

While I understand Leftie's frustration with the stagnancy of Assembly politics, I think his/her analysis is a little too simplistic.

Yes the IRA enegages in punishment beatings, but tell me what alternative is currently available in places where the RUC/PSNI behave as enemies of the community and are responsible for running the death squads (UDA mainly) who have planted thousands, yes thousands of pipe bombs in the last number of years.

As for the Assembly performance, maybe that has something to do with the fact that there is no local power to raise taxes etc. and thus the SF ministries, despite their best efforts, have little room for manoeuvere.

Does "Leftie" oppose imperialism in Afghanistan and Iraq? Then why not oppose it at home?
It is a strange irony of Irish politics that so many so-called socialists turn a blind-eye to the North unless it presents them with the opportunity to roundly condemn Sinn Féin. As for your prophecy that ex-prisoners will be purged, does that apply to Adams, McGuinness, Kelly, many of the party organisers and a good deal of its Árd Chomhairle? Talk sense.

by Michael Gallagher - Revolutionary Socialist Thu Apr 22, 2004 14:01 mglibertypics at hotmail dot com 33d Liberty House, Railway Street, Dublin 1 086 4048249

First Revolutionary Socialist Since Larkin to Stand In North Inner City
I will be standing on all the relevent issues that genuine socialists are concerned about. Update soon.

ps: Would the person that called me a careerist identify him or herself and contact me and we can talk about it.
I think there's only one 'IST' in my vocabulary and that's SOCIALIST!

by Sean Thu Apr 22, 2004 14:17

Calling yourself a revolutionary socialist doesnt make you one.

Your not the first person who claimed to be a revolutionary socialist to stand in Dublin's North Inner City!

Ask Judge White!

by hs - sp Thu Apr 22, 2004 16:55

best of luck michael, hope it goes well.

by inner city historian Thu Apr 22, 2004 17:51

think so

by Major Woody Thu Apr 22, 2004 18:01

And if I remember correctly got 99 votes for his trouble

by Col Woodbine Thu Apr 22, 2004 21:15

That's 99 more than Major Woody got.

by Local Tallyman Sat Apr 24, 2004 13:37

Judging by the SWP website they have pulled out of the race in Dundrum, Tralee and Waterford. The former candidates are:

Deirdre Cronin - DLR (Dundrum)
Kieran McNulty - Tralee Town council
Dick Roche - Waterford

Local Tallyman has been doing a bit of investigation about these withdrawals. In the case of Cronin and McNulty, a lack of an electoral machine seems to be the reason. Head Office may be pulling these smaller candidates in order to consolidate the other campaigns as they feel the stretch from running so many candidates.

Dick roche is a bit a mystery. It has been a while since Local Tallyman has been on the scene in Waterford. Waterford was always one of their more stronger electoral fields. Although they suffered a crushing disappointment two years ago when they did much worse than expected. Prehaps, the Waterford machine has collapsed?

The SWP will now only have candidates in the Dublin area and one in Gorey. The lack of candidates in Waterford or Cork have highlighted the weakness of the SWP outside of Dublin.

On the independents front, Michael Gallagher, freelance photographer, Residents against Racism activist and ex Socialist Party member has declared he will stand in the North Inner City ward as a 'Revolutionary Socialist'. Local Tallyman fears that Michael may well end up winning the 'wooden spoon' from the SWP.

by Local Tallyman Sat Apr 24, 2004 13:46

Local Tallyman would just like to add that the North Inner City ward in the Dublin City Council election will be very interesting. Tony Gregory TD will not be standing again due to the dual mandate prohibition. He has been unsuccessful in getting one of his people to stand. Gregory in the last local election got over 2 quotas on the first count. This leave a massive vacuum. Gregory is considering backing an independent, maybe Joe Mooney. Local Tallyman can't see him backing Gallagher. This would be a major boost to Mooney and could see him elected. one thing is certain though, not all 2 quotas will transfer over to any candidate that Gregory backs. Sinn Fein will eat into it as will Costello of Labour. Keep yours eyes on North Inner City, it will be very interesting

by Need to know Sun Apr 25, 2004 18:03

For too long the organised left has run roughshod over non-party activists. But just exactly how many members do left/green organisations in Ireland have? I suspect not many, but a survey here on indymedia will help us get some idea of the real picture. If you have an accurate or nearly accurate membership figure for the likes of the SP, SWP, WP, ISN, WSM, SF, Greens, etc., include it in a comment below. Give branch numbers (eg. SWP in Waterford) or national numbers (eg. WP entire membership).

Don’t worry about the Special Branch as they already know. It’s the rest of us long-suffering independents who could do with some idea of the real strength of organisations probably punching well above their weight. I’ll get the ball rolling by suggesting that the SP has around 300 members (north and south), the SWP no more than 200, WSM around 20, SF 3,000, Greens 1,500, WP 500.

by Dontdothecopsjob Sun Apr 25, 2004 21:19

"Don’t worry about the Special Branch as they already know"

I doubt they do. People should under no circumstances should ut up membership figures from the various left groups. They are only doing the job of the cops.

by R. Isible Sun Apr 25, 2004 21:30

An easy way for cops to gather information is to provoke activists into sparring with each other. This is also done by journalists (there's an interesting account of how the unprincipled, devious and dishonest people at the Late Late Show tried to get Rory Hearne and Aileen O'Carroll to fight with each other here:

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=64550&comment_id=70863
"Need to know" describes him/her/itself as a "long-suffering independents who could do with some idea"

Yeah right. Here's all you need to know: the government and the media are busy trying to suppress legitimate protest by painting a portrait of violence.

by SWatcher Mon Apr 26, 2004 14:53

This is the first line which the SWP use to introduce their candidate in Gorey

"John comes from a working class family and lives on a council estate"

Are the SWP emphasising this because it is unusual in their party to have workers?

by Local Tallyman Mon Apr 26, 2004 20:55

Local Tallyman has been looking at developments in Ballybrack with interest. The SWP have withdrawn Christy Moore and replaced him with David Lordan. Sadly Tallyman reckons this will make no difference to the SWP's fortunes in that poll. It could even decrease their chances of getting a decent vote. Christy was a man that was very active in building the anti bin tax campaign in the area and would have even got a few votes for the name! David is less well known and has less of a track record. Local Tallyman will keep his ear to the ground and eyes peeled and report on any developments.

A feature on the Workers Party to come....

by jon snow - itn Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:00

Dublin Ballyfermot
Brid Smith 1094 11.75

Dun Laoghaire
Richard Boyd Barrett 1439 7.94

Bray North
Joyce Power 77 2.62

Bray West
Catherine Kennedy 295 5.00

Artane/Coolock
Richie Browne 792 5.65

Ballybrack
Dave Lorden 464

Dublin Clondalkin
Gino Kenny 1044 7.36

Dublin Rathmines
Terry Connolly 215 1.95

Gorey
John Carthy 189 1.51

Dublin South East Inner City
Shay Ryan 239 3.00

Dublin South West Inner City
Brendan Donohoe 308 3.54

Dublin Ballymun
Kevin Wingfield 256 2.73

Waterford City No.3
Roy Hassey 52 0.86