OscailtA Call For a United Island of Ireland:The repressed history of Ireland and a call for unity
Breaking news: Italian MP, Sgarbi denounces the Statistical Fraud on COVID-19. The speech of the Member of Parliament Vittorio Sgarbi in the session of the Italian Camera, Meeting no. 331 of Friday 24, April, 2020. Vittorio Sgarbi, denounces the closure of 60% of the businesses for 25,000 COVID-19 Deaths, of which the National Institute of Health says 96.3% died NOT of COVID-19 but of other pathologies. That means only 925 have died of the virus. 24,075 have died of other things.2010-01-13T21:15:20+00:00Indymedia Irelandimc-ireland@lists.indymedia.iehttp://www.indymedia.ie/atomfullposts?story_id=95460http://www.indymedia.ie/graphics/feedlogo.gifDeal with the basics first.http://www.indymedia.ie/article/95460#comment2643712010-01-13T21:15:20+00:00Fiachra O' MaolcraoibheI must say first of that I thoroughly enjoyed your article. I was enlightening i...I must say first of that I thoroughly enjoyed your article. I was enlightening in some ways yet lacking in others.<br />
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Your brief history of the British slave trade in Ireland was very interesting and I have searched the net and found this website which may help to understand the issue of slavery in Ireland a bit better.<br />
<a href="http://www.scoilgaeilge.org/academics/slaves.htm" title="http://www.scoilgaeilge.org/academics/slaves.htm">http://www.scoilgaeilge.org/academics/slaves.htm</a><br />
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However you have missed something crucial. A thing which disturbs me completely. As you may know we live in an Island which is still partitioned as a result of the powerful unfluences you touched in your historical narrative on the British Empire's influence on Ireland. As a Northrner, I implore you to specify just how you plan to inspire the people of ireland to unite this troubled island. <br />
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Indeed you mention the 'rebellious psyche' of the Irish and the beacon of inspiration that Ireland had been to the rest of the world at one time or another. This is fair enough. Its alright talking of a need to unite but action is what is needed. For me personally, I have been surrounded by revolution and a ruing of missed chances. I have developed my own scorn for a free state which no longer wants us (if it ever did) and feel like an alien in my own capital (Dublin) and a stranger at home when faced with the ignorant who couldn't care less.<br />
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My thought is this; describe to me your plan and im sure we'll agree somewhere along the way. But right now I am much to cynical to be encouraged by your mere words.Retake history?http://www.indymedia.ie/article/95460#comment2643722010-01-13T22:24:22+00:00Mike Novack"The earliest known case of Irish slavery dates back to 1612, where there were s..."The earliest known case of Irish slavery dates back to 1612, where there were settlements of Irish slaves put to work in British settlements along the Amazon."<br />
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It's really odd that on one hand you refer to the "Book of Invasions" and on the other hand have no more sense of the history of slavery wit regard to Ireland than from after the British were on the scene. The history of slavery with regard to Ireland goes back before there were the people we now call "the British".<br />
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Perhaps odder that you place British settlements along the Amazon in the 17th Century (or in any other century for that matter). Got your rivers confused? During this time period the Brits did try to establish themselves near what is now the Panama-Columbia border (Darien) but that didn't work out too well. But that's a long, long way form the Amazon. Re:http://www.indymedia.ie/article/95460#comment2643762010-01-14T08:24:05+00:00Ruairí Ó ConghaileRe: Fiachra
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the article. Indeed you are correct, I ...Re: Fiachra<br />
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the article. Indeed you are correct, I don't put forth any suggestions on a plan of action, nor was that my intention. Volumes could be written on this matter, my aim with this article was to keep it short but informative, specifically with people new to this topic in mind. I agree with you however, action is what is needed. But effective action can only take place when the people truly comprehend our current position. We must first recognize, culturally, who we are. We need the people to desire unity, then we won't be able to prevent it. So for now.. in my opinion, we must aim to teach. A time for action will come, but we must sort out our own house first.<br />
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There was a profusion of English, French and Dutch colonies in the Amazon area during this time. Though you are correct on one thing, there are a lot of suggestions that Irish slavery dates back further, perhaps it would have been more accurate of me to say the first official government records of Irish slavery date from 1612. Venetian court records also confirm the existence such settlements. As does an anonymous French journal on display in the British Museum, Father Figueiera’s book 'Relacao de algumas tocantes ao Maranhao e grao-para', and British records of the transfer of Irish political prisoners to this region at this time, there is little room for doubt.<br />
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Regardless.. why focus on this? I fear my point has been lost. What is your opinion on the history of Irish slavery, which is what the article was about after all? I'd be interested in hearing your point of view on what effect, if any, this has on modern Irish society?<br />
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Thanks for reading guys.<br />
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'Educate that you may be free'http://www.indymedia.ie/article/95460#comment2643772010-01-14T09:52:11+00:00Fiachra O' MaolcraoibheRE: Ruaírí
Perhaps your right...maybe I did overlook the crux of this article b...RE: Ruaírí<br />
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Perhaps your right...maybe I did overlook the crux of this article but surely you understand my position on the matter of unity. Growing up in a region under foreign sovereingty with the proclamation hanging on the wall is something of a poor joke to me. But yes your correct in saying that education is essential other wise we will always be in a revolutionary limbo. However you must also realise that there are those who would sooner have us under British rule once more. I refer of course to the D4 brigade of what some term as 'Brit loving (noun of preference)'. Here's an article I picked up on by Conn Corrigan a Irishman who is apparently so ashamed of this fact that he feels it is necessary to live in New York.<br />
<a href="http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/articles/why_ireland_should_rejoin_the_commonwealth" title="http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/articles/why_ireland_should_rejoin_the_commonwealth">http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/articles/why_ir...ealth</a><br />
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The fact is that Ireland is in an awful state of affairs and the issue you have raised is a political one. Mainstream republicanism in the north is of the opinion that a united Isand of Ireland is much closer now than it was 30, 50, 100 years ago but with splinters in the ideology and a more than likely involvment of British spy rings in the north who are suspected of trying their harest to derail any devolution of power, it seems more unlikely by the day. The fact is, and any any run-of-the-mill dont-rock-the boat nationalist/unionist party will epitimise this state of mind, that most people are happy to be ignorant of anything which might affect their lives in the hope that it will some how blow away with the passing of time.<br />
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What I'm really trying to say without being to offensive and thus trying to maintain my respect for your view is that I believe this generalistic 'the people must know' approach is a bit naive. But indeed an interesting point nonetheless.Re: Fiachrahttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/95460#comment2643922010-01-14T19:28:51+00:00Ruairí Ó Conghailerconnollytmp at gmail dot comThanks for the feed back. Its good to speak to someone who feels passionately on...Thanks for the feed back. Its good to speak to someone who feels passionately on the matter. I understand your frustration. I just read this quote from Michael Collins that someone sent me, it sort of sums up my position on the matter: <br />
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"It was the national spirit which created the old government, and not the native government which created the national spirit.<br />
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But though it survived, the soul of the nation drooped and weakened. Without the protection of a native government we were exposed to the poison of foreign ways. The national character was infected and the life of the nation endangered. We had armed risings and political agitation. But we were not strong enough to put out the foreign Power until the national consciousness was fully re-awakened." -Michael Collins 1922<br />
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I couldn't agree more, until people understand the identity that we are fighting for, this will be a losing battle. All the guns in the world can't restore our national identity. The powers that be will be all too happy to see us bogged down in making this Irish vs English, North vs South, Catholic vs Protestant, Republican vs Unionist and so on. Irish people need to understand, in my opinion, that this is something which runs much deeper, right to the very core of who we are as a people. If this is truly grasped, the transition to a United Ireland will be impossible to stop. <br />
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Action will be wasted while the people remain willfully ignorant of who they are. This is my opinion anyway.<br />
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I appreciate your point of view though. I can understand how its hard to remain optimistic when you've been surrounded by this your whole life.<br />
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What do you think would be the best course of action toward a United Ireland??what the?http://www.indymedia.ie/article/95460#comment2643932010-01-14T22:54:35+00:00pipwhats the temple of danu???whats the temple of danu???Plans never workhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/95460#comment2644022010-01-15T14:31:06+00:00Fiachra ó MaolcraoibheI understand what you mean. It's no well kept secret that this 'island' has lost...I understand what you mean. It's no well kept secret that this 'island' has lost its identity. Perhaps its gone down this road too far. But thats being pesimistic and pesimism is what the Irish do best (along with cynicism and wit). But alas we have become the victims of our own self-deprecation.<br />
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As for my plan. I try not to have plans because if history has taught us anything it is that plans never go to plan. 'the best laid plans of mice and men/oft go astray'. One example is WWI and our own easter rising. Perhaps political asassination would work in so much as achieving a platform for but in that case we'd have to assemble the wittiest of our island to do this dirty work. Alternatively, there could be another armed uprising but that would undo all that the last one achieved. International support? Whats the point? Does anyone really give a toss about 'bonnie Ireland'. And even if we did gain international support it would turn into a UN disaster! Politics is fine until we find ourselves in stalemate and where the voice of unionism ulitimately dominates. A holy war? You should read Ed Maloney's biography of Paisley. That'll give you a laugh. But as for catholic vs protestant, that conflict should never have happened and we know who to blame.<br />
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As you can see, there is no black and white. There's just the shades of grey in between. Irish indentity is something I believe in but I get hammered for it and this is why I'm so cynical on the topic.Slavery and alcoholhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/95460#comment2644462010-01-17T10:29:42+00:00AmadanThis is history as written in about 1900.
Slavery was a big factor in Gaelic Ir...This is history as written in about 1900.<br />
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Slavery was a big factor in Gaelic Ireland - how did St Patrick first arrive here?<br />
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Alcohol is written up in many of the old annals, it is not a recent import.Thanks for the input!http://www.indymedia.ie/article/95460#comment2644622010-01-17T17:48:27+00:00RuairiThanks for the input Amadan!
I think you may have missed my points somewhat. W...Thanks for the input Amadan! <br />
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I think you may have missed my points somewhat. With regards to Alcohol, I wasn't suggesting that it was a recent import, just that current level of abuse are quite high, and quite damaging to society, yet the vast majority of Irish people accept this abuse of alcohol as somehow being part of our culture. Take St. Patricks day for example.<br />
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With regards to your point on St Patrick himself, well St Patrick was a Welshman brought into slavery by Irish raiders, my article was intended to be brief look at the little known history of Irish slavery, and the enormous number of Irish who suffered as slaves and are not commemorated or remembered in any official way.<br />
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Irish identityhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/95460#comment2644842010-01-18T11:32:31+00:00A FreemanSo many inaccuracies in this thread, where to start? First of all the originator...So many inaccuracies in this thread, where to start? First of all the originator of this thread states that Ireland was 'dominated by the British' for 700 years, that's nonsense. First of all there was no such thing as a british identity in 1170 when the first Norman intervention (invited by an Irishman called Diarmuid Macmurrough) took place. At the time these Norman invaders would hardly have regarded themselves as English let alone British. Any sort of British identity only emerged in these islands following the 1707 Act of Union of the English and Scottish crowns and parliaments in that year. <br />
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Secondly any harking back back to a mythical 'Isle of saints and scholars' is just wishful thinking. Ireland also had ancient traditions of clan warfare and slave raiding long before the evil English ever set foot in the place. Irish pirates regularly raided the west coast of Roman Britain for slaves and booty (as another poster said it's how St. Patrick got here in the first place!). <br />
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Thirdly, this country has a high proportion of partly-English genes even with it's indigenous population due to centuries of on-off settlement and intermarriage, look at the surnames of many people for instance - names like Smith, Cooper, Foster, Miller, Baxter and Webster regularly show up in parts of the country in supposedly completely ethnic Irish individuals, but none of these names are Irish, they're all English surnames. Also names like Lombard or Bromhead how the far flung origins of at least some of the genes of many Irish people, ideas of ethnic purity and identity are largely fictional. Perhaps in the West of Ireland one can find more ethnically 'pure' individuals, but surely only an extreme nationalist thinks that this makes those people better than the rest of us?<br />
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The English are a mongrel mix in terms of ethnic identity (romano-celtic, anglo-saxon and norman mix, not to mention later influxes of Scots, Hugenots, assimilated Jews and even Irish to the mix!) but so are we to a lesser degree and if you're called Foster, Smith or Miller, spare a moment to think of your English ancestors! Re: Freemanhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/95460#comment2644912010-01-18T16:35:31+00:00RuairíRe: Freeman
"Perhaps in the West of Ireland one can find more ethnically 'pure'...Re: Freeman<br />
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"Perhaps in the West of Ireland one can find more ethnically 'pure' individuals, but surely only an extreme nationalist thinks that this makes those people better than the rest of us?"<br />
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Did I give that impression??? That is definitely not my position nor my intention. That would be a ridiculous suggestion. I think you are trying to suggest that there are racist undertones in the article... No where in the article at all do I mention the mixing of nationalities or people of different ethnicities as being a negative thing as you have just said. Where did you come up with the idea of bringing up ethnic purity??? Thats madness.<br />
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Of course there are Irish people with English backgrounds, as well as many other places. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and people should be free to embrace their ethnic identity fully. We have a very diverse population at present, thankfully. I don't see how this has anything to do with Irelands lost history of slavery. <br />
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It is a fact that the history of the slave trade in Ireland goes largely unreported and forgotten. That St. Patrick himself was brought to Ireland as a slave does not negate the fact that thousands of Irish peoples lives were destroyed by slavery, should we just cast this aside because we are TOLD St. Patrick was a slave????<br />
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Also, the slave trade in Ireland was systematic and wide spread, sending Irish to all corners of the globe to work as slaves. There is absolutely no comparison with the relatively small numbers of people captured from Britain by a few unrecorded Irish outlaws. Its an absurd comparison.