A good day for Irish hares!
international |
animal rights |
opinion/analysis 
Sunday June 19, 2011 16:27
by Protecting Irish Hares from Coursing Cruelty
Hateful pro-hare coursing internet site shut down!
The hateful internet chat and information site "Greyhound Nuts" has just been shut down. This represents a heartening development for everyone in Ireland who has campaigned for the welfare of both greyhounds and the innocent hares usung in cruel coursing.
"Greyhound Nuts" saw itself as a no holds barred Ireland-based forum where any fan of hare coursing in particular could say litearally anything about those opposed to their bloodsport. The laws of libel didn't seem to apply. Horrendous lies were routinely peddled about named individuals who happened to disapprove of setting up hares to be baited and terrorized at coursing venues....or anyone who had ever, in the media or in any public forum, said a word against the ill-treatment of unwanted greyhounds. Vicious name-calling and character assassination was commonplace, with the wildest of fabrications posted and allowed to remain despite challenges from the innocent people targeted.
The site had resorted on a daily basis to every possible underhanded trick to undermine campaign groups like the Irish Council Against Blood Sports, the Hunt Saboteurs, the Animal Rights Action Network, and the Campaign for the Abolition of Cruel Sports, It saw these groups as a threat to their beloved animal baiting pastimes.
As well as lavishing praise on the most appalling cruelty to hares in coursing, the site carried numerous postings that sought to justify blooding, the practise wherein live hares, rabbits, and cats, are fed to greyhounds to whet their appetite for blood...before a coursing or track event. When one fan for example asked if live rabbits would be good in blooding, another suggested tom cats owing to their tough skin and staying power
Cyber-space is a lot healther and cleaner this morning after the closing of this abhorrent website!
Hare tossed by greyhounds at coursing event...
More "sport" from coursing. The main site promoting this has just been shut down...
Comments (41 of 41)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41I took the two photos you claim the "hares tossed by Greyhounds"...........In both cases this is totally untrue. A hare will often jump into the air to avoid capture......this is what both hares did. The top photo the hare jumped clean over the dogs........and was untouched to run straight to the escape.
The second photo there was slight contact in the air but still the hare escaped with no hard knocks from the dogs.
Oh that explains everything Yvonne. The hares just happen to look as if they're being tossed, and of course you would be an entirely objective photographer?? Your "Coursing Diary" website, though, looks to me to be anything but objective. It's slanted completely in favour of coursing.
Coursing folk like us to believe that the hares love being baited, and that any resemblance between their sport and deliberate cruelty to animals is entirely coincidental.
Some further good photographs on this link:
www.banbloodsports.com
In the first picture Yvonne mentioned the hares back legs are sideways. Any animal I'm aware of will use their back legs to jump. These back legs will push against something to move in the direction the animal is jumping towards. In this case the hare will push against the ground. If the hare has used his back legs to push against the ground then why is his back legs horizontal to the ground? Looks like the hare was hit here.
Btw, if the hare did jump then why is he jumping? Does the hare not like it when the greyhounds mash him about?
It is important that everybody realise that Coursing and in fact all Fieldsports organisations do more for the biodiversity in the environment than any other organisations, private or public, and all through voluntary work and their own expertise.
Constantly trying to attack these organisations, which seems to be your raison d'etre, is totally counterproductive to the animals you are trying to protect.
A hare is well adapted to be coursed, in fact his very nature allows him to thrive in the natural world.
To say coursing is cruel is misguided and shows a lack of understanding of nature.
It really amazes me when I come on to this site and read some of the stuff written. I see ye have now moved on to angling. So that would be a very clever move considering we are living on an island.
Anyway why dont you remove this total lie regarding the internet site www.greyhoundnuts.com
its plain to see its still there but sure ye are so used to telling lies this one probably dosent matter.
Hare coursing has nothing to do with conservation. Its about forcing captive hares to run for their lives from pre-blooded dogs in a wired enclosure. It was banned in Australia and Britain on animal welfare grounds, and none of the tired old nonsense about clubs being concerned about the hares and the crap about hares "enjoying" it all were given the slightest credence when the final debates ensued prior to abolition in these countries.
That Greyhound Nuts "Cyber Sewer" is back by the way, though they've gone really paranoid about "antis on the site and are now demanding special ID from anyone joining their outfit. But hey...if they've got nothing to hide why the secrecy?
But hare coursing has plenty to hide.
For anyone interested, I'm pro-greyhound industry but Greyhound Nuts is doing serious damage to the entire industry and is in fact aiding the "anti" campaign through its unprofessional behaviour.
Here is a link to what a reputable greyhound racing site has to say about Greyhound Nuts:
http://www.greyhound-data.com/knowledge.php?b=1¬e=384746
Whether the hare is being thrown into the air or jumping into the air is much the same to a hare that thinks it is about to be torn limb from limb. There's nothing gentlemanly about terrorising wild animals. It is entertainment for sociopaths.
In reply to Greyhound Nuts asking for verification of members on there, this is common amongst internet forums, the great example of what a real greyhound site is 'GreyhoundData' requires verification of members so there is nothing to hide, its just to stop people joining who do so for one reason only to 'check up' on people going about their daily business of training greyhounds and use any information they can in miscostrued ways to cause harm for them.
Your original post commented on libel etc, may i ask why is there no correction posted to this original topic that the site was 'not closed down' as your original author suggested, again i feel you look for the sensationalism in the opening post but fail to correct it when it is obviosuly untrue.
As for Greyhounddata being a temple that all greyhound owners and followers should bow their heads to please give it a break, they have been hammering the IGB at every given opportunity for the past number of years, it is now merely an Australian greyhound forum, however i will add its database is exceptional.
Your rules state 'play the ball' therefore if someone posts a mistruth on here such as the original poster did then why is it not corrected, retraction is common in the media world but is this really a media site, or is it just a soap box for every so called 'journalist' to share their unfounded opinions to the world?
Move on folks there is more to life.
In reply to "Frankel": I am a supporter of coursing and greyhound racing, but I don't support the Greyhound Nuts forum. Why? Because it attacks named people, whether pro or anti coursing or racing, with all kinds of vicious name-calling and bullying. The link already supplied shows who and what they are, a disgrace to the whole greyhound scene in Ireland. Anyone who doesn't agree with them is called all sorts of names and ripped asunder.
As far as the antis are concerned, I agree that we who support coursing must challenge their arguments...but not attack them personally as individuals with personalised threats. Greyhound Nuts has a section where it invites anyone with a grudge against an anti to say anything they want about them. Personal photos of antis are put up and slanderous remarks printed underneath these.
I counter the anti coursing argument with FACTS, not character assassination, and this how the Greyhound DATA forum operates too. Fair debate, but no spiteful stuff. My own sister is anti-coursing, my brother is neutral, that's the way it goes.
With "friends" like the Greyhound Nuts" forum, coursing doesn't need enemies!
I disagree with your comments on Data being a place of blissful discussion on greyhound topics, you mention it is a place where facts are presented and debated in honest open way.
Can i ask have you looked at greyhound data topics concerning IGB over the past 3 years and honestly can put your hand on your heart and say they are factual and represent the views of the majority of greyhound people in Ireland.? Cause as a greyhound owner and person involved in the sport i can tell you it was disgraceful what was going on there, something which the new owners have tried to clean up but alas some people on there will not allow this to happen and continue to peddle their one and only view. It seems a lot of people are anxious to close down greyhountnuts but promote greyhounddata as a place of salvation, most people that partake on nuts have left data as they were deemed 'surplus' to requirements or did not conform to the 'dictatorial' style of their moderators.
You are also incorrect in saying greyhound nuts allows anyone to post on the anti greyhound section that is not correct, access is restricted no more then it is restricted on sites such as ICABS or ARAN concerning contributing to their sites. Slanderous comments..most of the comments on the named section are actual reports from media and other websites, so i guess the slandering must have originated elsewhere, and indeed if there were slanderous they would have been long since removed from such areas prior to Greyhoundnuts ever getting their hands on them.
As for 'name calling' please dont tell me the gentle creatures who partake in Animal rights campaigns are upset at such, how about us greyhound people who own and breed dogs who are described as 'sociopaths' , 'blood thirsty' and carrying out all sort of hideous crimes against nature. If i had a euro for everytime Aideen Yourell called us 'barbaric' i would be a millionaire.
Time to give it a break folks, greyhoundnuts serves a purpose and that is to provide multitudes of information on various greyhound topics to greyhound people, its specialty is the coursing section but again cause people have an issue with a legalized sport they will look at every opportunity to knock it.
If Frankel cared to follow the link provided by "A Little Insight" above he'd know exactly how Greyhound Nuts came to be founded. A number of people were banned from Greyhound Data (an internationally acclaimed website) for absolutely appalling behaviour. of what kind?
follow the link and see!
Greyhound Nuts is a ragbag of garbage that is more of a threat to coursing definitely than all the anti groups put together. Any politician taking a look at it (and im sure they've been sent samples by the enemies of coursing) would feel like shunning both greyhound racing AND coursing after seeing the types claiming to represent both sports on "Nuts".
The only people, without doubt who can benefit from the garbage on Greyhound Nuts are the antis, it gives them a stick to beat the crap out of all of us in the ICC and clubs around the country who are trying hard to keep the game alive.
The Greyhound Nuts forum actually makes us look like the type of moronic sickos that the antis say we are, but that we aren't and never were.
Coursing to repeat is undermined by the crappy Greyhound Nuts forum, the best gift the antis would have wished for. Think about that and weep for the future of our sport!
Would you care to explain to me how greyhoundnuts is portraying a sicko image of coursing...the main stay of the site is coursing information on draws, results, pictures, and updates on meetings from around the country. As well as breeding information and statistics on how certain breeding lines are performing. That is sick is it?
I think you are portraying an image of being involved in coursing but i would have my doubts you are involved at all, again you seem drawn to the great Greyhound data site, the same one that took on a campaign of abuse towards the IGB and leaked confidential documents to the world...yet you see no wrong in this? If you want links they can be provided also.
I would also like to point out that the foundation of Nuts while originating from people who were not permitted to post on the Data site set up the site as an alternative to them, where people can openly speak their mind.
In fact your reference to politicians receiving letters from Antis' concerning greyhounds is true however the source of those letters was 'Data' not 'Greyhoundnuts'.
I use both sites , both have their place and your constant running down of Nuts for the promotion of data leads me to believe you have alterior motive in this respect.
Anyways when will the topic starting be removed as its untrue or is this site going to hide behind its disclaimer when known mistruths are being published.
Greyhound Nuts damages coursing because 1) it conducts its defence of coursing against the antis in the worst possible way. It doesn't hit back with facts and credible info, but with vitriol, by putting up allegations against individual, named antis that it can't stand over. It's one thing to attack a group, or a particular view, but targeting individuals with silly name calling rubbish doesn't help coursing, it helps the antis as it portrays them as victims!! A bit of PR savvy wouldn't go astray on Nuts.
2) secondly it damages coursing because if people don't trust the messengers they tend not to trust the message. Greyhound Nuts is dragging down the whole greyhound industry owing to its nasty image and muck raking nonsense. Re Data being anti IGB, thats rubbish. Data only corrected anomalies in the board's activities. It showed the way forward, and the board eventually listened. Believe me, the IGB is a lot more worried about the bad image of couyrsing and greyhound racing that Greyhound Nuts is responsible for.
Oh and by the way it's not just Greyhound Data that has a jaundiced view of the Greyhound Nuts site:
Here's another site that has them sussed:
http://www.thegreyhoundstir-up.proboards.com/index.cgi?...age=1
I find Frankel's defense of the sickening "Anti Hit Squad" section on Greyhound Nuts a bit hard to take. For anyone unfamilar with the site, this is part of the forum where highly personal attacks on animal welfare people are allowed, and photographs are posted of the people referred to. Completely fabricated reports are posted and members of G Nuts invited to add their own comments, anything that pops into their heads. Foul and abusive language is tolerated on Greyhound Nuts (have a look and see!) in reference to anyone who objects to hare coursing or indeed any form of animal cruelty.
Frankel refers to "antis" more or less doing the same. He is wrong. The ICABS and other sites certainly attack the cruel practises of hare coursing, foxhunting, badger baiting etc, but do not in engage in individualised name calling. There's a hell of adifference between saying that coursing is barbaric...and falsely accusing an anti coursing campaigner of being a "terrorist", "or the Great Unwashed", etc, as G Nuts does day in and day out.
I wonder how coursing people, or Greyhound Nuts members, would react if a site were established that posted false allegations about them and their families, with loads of photos added? Because that is what they are doing to anyone as much as whispers against bloodsport practises.
Greyhound Nuts even attacked with foul expletives a long list of Irish artists and entertainers who signed their names to a petition opposing cruelty to GREYHOUNDS!
Then again, maybe that guy from "Data" could be right, maybe G Nuts is helping, through its continuing crass stupidity, the very campaign to ban hare coursing that it claims to oppose.
If that's the case, maybe its continued existence might be a plus to those of us who seek to protect hares and other animals from from cruelty calling itself "sport"!
I carnt really agree with the above post.....As you know im a photographer with a pro coursing blog. .....as a result of this I get a constant supply of unsavory messages sent my way from the "anti element"............please dont pretend you all all inocent animal lovers ....that are always wronged and will never offend others. Some of my messages have had mild threats too.
Having said that I get the same treatment from Greyhoundnuts crowd so I guess you just carnt win.....lol
You say Greyhoundnuts attacks people with unsubstantiated information in the Anti section, can i ask do you call articles posted in various newspapers and information taken from these very own peoples high profile websites and social media outlets as being lies then?
No personal photos are shown on nuts, all of them are freely in the public domain so again do not be sensationalizing the point.
Data picks out abnomalies on IGB policy!, give us a break if you call abnomalies releasing confidential documents and slating every decision as constructive debate then we have a different understanding. They allowed an ex CEO and his cronies run riot for a long period of time and if you ask any neutral person outside of nuts or data they will say that.
For the other comments, in reply:
As for the ICABS do you feel it is appropriate that they post emails of businesses who may wish to sponsor a perfectly legal pastime in Ireland and call for people to boycott them in a method of intimidcation to stop sponsorship in the future.
You paint a picture that Animal rights is a clean group of people and that all they do is above board, can i ask do you believe it is right for ARAN to be videoing kids in a school and posting it on Youtube as a means of getting their message out there (parental consent for this was not received!)
Fair play for digging up that forum talking about nuts, it must be very popular as no one ever heard of it up until now, must check it out!
Yvonne, from all acounts you were naughty on Nuts hence why you got a red card from there. :-)
At the end of the day i will leave it at this, in all walks of life people will hold different viewpoints and will argue tooth and nail on certain points, there may be name calling but i disagree that its one sided. As Yvonne said in her post a number of replies to her were far from pleasant.
Neither party is going away so its a case of get on or ignore each other, cause i dont see both sides sitting around a table anytime soon.
"Yvonne, from all acounts you were naughty on Nuts hence why you got a red card from there. :-)"
Thats what youve been told.............if your interested contact me to get the other side of the story......there are always two sides
I would like to point out Frankl
These are not RELYS to me.....I make no contact with these people.....they are harrasing messages to me....totally onesided. Ive relied to the odd one but in most cases they are not worth even reading
"At the end of the day i will leave it at this, in all walks of life people will hold different viewpoints and will argue tooth and nail on certain points, there may be name calling but i disagree that its one sided. As Yvonne said in her post a number of replies to her were far from pleasant.!
Yes reply was not intended at you Yvonne, i was just saying the petty argument about name calling is not one sided as you well know being on the receiving end of emails on your blog.
In reply to Franklin, I would point out another major difference between the ICABS website (which won an award by the way for the quality of its presentations!) and the Greyhound Nuts forum.
The ICABS site is accessible to ALL members of the public, day and night. Anyone can freely view any items on it and download any information they wish. Secondly it NEVER slanders anyone. It provides only factual information about all aspects of bloodsports in Ireland. I'll give a link to it below and anyone who doubts what I say, please just have a look. You'll have no trouble viewing or reading any of the excellent presentations.
Now compare that to how Greyhound Nuts operates. Only certain selected people can view the site, and these must prove to the site moderator that they are strictly pro-coursing!! In other words a neutral member of the public CANNOT EVEN SEE WHAT'S ON THE SITE!!
And worse still, some parts of the site are hidden from all but the most hardcore coursing fans, like the section that has all the muck-raking rubbish about "antis" AND their families and relatives.
Franklin is wrong when he states that only material already published in newspaper etc appears in the "Anti Hit Squad" section. In fact this section has reams of "creative writing" pieces by G Nuts members attacking anti-coursing people in a sickening manner, making false and ugly allegations about THEIR PRIVATE PRIVATE LIVES that are utterly without foundation.
I have been sent copies of such "opinion pieces" by a brave infiltrator who joined G Nuts to keep an eye on what they're up to and boy does it mke interesting reading. I am slowly sifting through this stuff and how anyone could claim it was "fair comment" or "factual reporting" is beyond me. I have the evidence so they deny the true nature of this material.
The day G Nuts becomes as open and honest a site as the award winning one by ICABS I will give them some credit, but right now the site is an insult to civilisation itself and to human decency
I have to respond to that silly remark about Vyonne Harrington being "naughty" on the Greyhound Nuts forum. I have seen her posts and all of them were respectful, just expressing an opinion. What a contrast to the bilge spewed out by the other "writers", all of it full of swearing and the foulest of abuse. For the folks who run Nuts to call a critic of its lowlife site "naughty" is positively rib-tickling. Yvonne has done more to boost the greyhound scene than any of the muck rackers on Nuts.
Re Greyhound Data being unfair to IGB, that's so far from reality its laughable. GD steered the IGB and to an extent the Irish Coursing Club in a positive direction while G Nuts was backing all the wrong players in both bodies. We were critical of IGB from time to time, yes, but only when we felt this criticism would help sort out some very delicate problems that the greyhound industry as a whole is grappling with.
Greyhound Data, unlike the now badly wounded Greyhound Nuts joke, is open and transparent, but I hear that G Nuts will from midnight next Sunday be restricting access to its forums even more.
Something to hide boys? You won't find Greyhound Data covering up, or allowing anyone's reputation to be torn to shreds.
The ICC and IGB, which Greyhound Nuts likes to be seen to be defending, don't want to know about them. I heard the ICC boys have to wash their mouth out with soap whenever they even mention that name!
I agree with the person who warned that Greyhound Nuts is tarnishing the greyhound industry. I'm amazed they can't realise the damage they're doing. I predict that any decent members of Nuts will have the sense to join Greyhound Data, where they'll be welcomed home like lost sheep that have finally seen the light. They'll be cleansed, dosed, and sheared and in no time at all will begin to look like REAL friends of coursing and greyhound racing.
ICABS may be an open site 24/7 but can i ask one simple question how can you be challenged when you simply post what you want on a webpage and dont permitt comment or analysis of what you have put up.
ICABS asking people to boycott Irish businesses because they happen to sponsor legal pastimes is a disgrace plain and simple, an example of their infactual reporting was that Pedro food suppliers who sponsored a pup of the month competition for the ICC on their webpage. appearing on the ICABS site as a sucessful campaign where the stopped Pedro from supporting such cruelty.
However what they failed to mention was Pedro stopped as the competition was over as per the dates agreed the competition would run, a sucess for ICABS was a bit of 'journalistic embelishment' in this case! (If you want to confirm this then contact Pedro foods and they will confirm no problem!
You comment your site is open 24/7 and what have coursing got to hide, i would direct anyone that wants to the Irish Coursing club website which is open to all 24/7.
Of course some will say you have to pay to be a member, during the coursing season the sites charges for access to coursing draws and results and breeding information (can be verified anytime you like).
Most internet forums require registration for adding comments, even the heralded data requires you to issue them with a photo id as proof of who you are before joining . As to the claim to join nuts you have to be a pro coursing supporter that claim is ridiculous you need to put in a user name and email address for verification purposes (common on the internet) and once an administrator approves the account they have access to the forum, i dont see any questions asked are you a supporter or coursing or greyhound racing to join but then again it would be safe to assume that if you wanted to join a greyhound forum you would have interest in the sport and breed.
In reply to Admirer of Yvonne
Yvonnes photos are a joy to view and i do so each season, however you seem to indicate you know everything about what went on in Nuts and i doubt you do. Yvonne is her own character and to say herself and forum admin were chalk and cheese would be an understatement, there was numerous departures and returns by Yvonne but the last exit it seems has been final.
Your final comment about 'welcome to data' resonates with a personal message that was distributed on the Nuts site recently, perhaps we have uncovered the 'undercover agent' so to speak. Long live coursing i say.
In reply to Data admirer
To say Data steered the IGB and ICC i would say have you been smoking the wacky backy recently? There has been no mention of coursing on the Data website until last year when Data saw how many coursing supporters were on Nuts and put up a board to please the handful on there who follow coursing. Steering the ICC...or indeed the IGB that is an insult and i doubt Holger Von Bohen himself would agree with you on that point. It was clear to all that for a period of time all one could read on Data in relation to the IGB was Paschal Taggart talking about his good friend Michael on garden leave, and how he generated so much profit for the board to be knocked by Paddy Owens and Mugs Murphy for somewhat over exhuberant portrayal of reality.
Frankel
Only a handful of coursing supporters on Data......I think not!
The thing is about Coursing People.....Most of them do not post on the internet.........They view the posts. It saddens me to see the Coursing Community judged by a handful of troublemakers that stir things up on Nuts. This in reality is not the people you meet at Coursing meetings. Infact Tom Brett is not a Coursing Person......and rarely ever goes to watch.
If you take 5 mins to look at a page from Datas Coursing section you will find that each topic gets from between 500 to 2000 views.......hardly a handfull of people I think. Who knows......Perhaps it will grow stronger.
Now Yvonne are you honestly going to say the coursing section on data is of a different level then nuts. Sure only for Jim Murry (aka Paddy) was over there it would still be poor Raymond trying on his own. The Aussies are on there talking about Coursing in Victoria when in reality they are only talking about drag races!
You have changed your tune on Nuts, now they are just troublemakers in your opinion and your comment people on there don't be at meets is nonsense I believe the count was 14 national contestants who had no problem wearing Nuts colors on their jackets as they left the field, you must have missed them photos.on your blog you have a few kind words about nuts but alas now it seems your playing a different tune.
In reply to Frankel's spurious idea that ICABS is somehow not entitled to persuade sponsors of hare coursing to drop their support for this cruelty to animals, I would remind him that ICABS, and all the other animal protection groups, are perfectly within their rights in contacting any commercial firm that props up hare coursing and asking them to withdraw sponsorship. That's what a campaign is about: persuasion! There is no intimidation involved, just a polite approach to the companies and a request to them to quit giving money to people who are netting hares from our beautiful countryside for use as LIVE BAIT in organised cruelty sessions. How different the polite ICABS letters to the sponsors are compared to the vitriolic and sadistic bile produced by the Greyhound Nuts site.
The pictures already posted here by another person, two of them taken by a pro-coursing photographer, show how sick and one-sided and decidedly UN-sporting hare coursing is. It is one hundred percent acceptable to approach anyone sponsoring this perversion and show them how misguided such support is. Similar campaigns were organised in Australia, Britain and NI in the run-up to the abolition of hare coursing in those countries.
Re the nature of ICABS website, it's definitely open to the public 24/7, unlike the Greyhound Nuts site that is highly restricted access-wise. And as the other person said, it's an award-winning site.
Guess what? Greyhound Nuts has yet to win an award.
Anyone wishing to bet that it ever will???????
Now Frankel
Dont start twisting my words please................... (I can see the pages running now on Nuts....YH calls Us all trouble makers)
...............I said there was A FEW ....trouble makers on Nuts.........of Course there are many good people on there too......many of them my friends. But even on Nuts Most Coursing suppoters just look in without posting.
And I did not compare Nuts to Data...........I mearly pointed out that there is more than a handful looking in..(as you stated)..and the views per topic shows this to be true
Let me guess did John Gormally present the award, so blooming what if the site got an award what has that got to do with anything?
You speak of 'majority' a word used a lot by ICABS and you often see quoted poll results again I question how come the polls from other areas that don't support their 'majority' view aren't shown?
You speak of persuasion as the means they achieve things, all sounds peaceful people ringing and clogging up email accounts of businesses just cause they choose to sponsor a local coursing club. And supporting a fully legal and licensed pastime at that. Anyways the only award a nuts contributor wants is a trial stake winner!
I agree with Vyonne that G Data is doing an excellent job in keeping coursing fans informed, and I would add that it does so without placing silly restrictions on who can or can't view the forums on the site. It is open to the public as any site with nothing to hide has to be. Yes. Coursing in Victoria doesn't have hares, but that's the way of the world, we don't have bullfighting here either. so what? Coursing is coursing, with or without hares. I prefer it with hares, just as I prefer sex without condoms, but sometimes you just have to concede a little to survive. In Australia coursing had to go drag to survive, here in 1993 we had to accept muzzling, like it or lump it. That's progress, though I preferred coursing without muzzles.
Franklin is totally wrong in his assessment of Data's handling of issues to do with IGB. There is no evidence to back his wild claims that Data indulged in such mind-games and irresponsible commentary on the internal workings of IGB. It hosted a healthy and respectul exchange of views that resulted in IGB mending its ways and improving the service it provides. That, too, is progress. Greyhound Nuts is on the way out. The Indians are well and truly circling the wagons and the Nuts cowboys are quickly running out of ammo.
But one thing about Data. It would never , ever, stoop to the tactics of Greyhound Nuts, to the character assassination and distortions of the truth for which that site is now notorious.
Likewise with Yvonne Harringhton's uplifting website. I have inspected it very carefuly and I could not find even ONE example of the kind of lowbrow, twisted and dishonest tripe that is the mainstay and lifeblood of Greyhound Nuts.
Correction Franklin, it's professional polls conducted by IMS and MRBI that showed huge majority support for a coursing ban in Ireland. The so-called "polls" conducted by Greyhound Nuts have no scientic validity or credibility as they were not conducted by indepedent reserachers.
On the subject of what exactly those companies were sponsoring, let's be clear about this: hare coursing is not like tennis or cricket or hurling. It's a cowardly game of chance in which two blooded dogs are set on a defenceless hare, the idea being to terrorize the animal for human entertainment.
And the punters? all they're worried about is, by Franklin's own admission, a "trial stake winner" and other such crap.
Here's a reminder of what hare coursing is about. A picture of shame:
Imagine wanting to SPONSOR this!
Im sorry Anti People.....Your assessment is way out. I meet a very cross section of people in my work. Very very few are opposed to Coursing.....Most really dont care. Most know nothing about it.
Ive attended on the Coursing stands both at the Ploughing Match and at Punchestown last year and there were very few people objecting to it. Infact when they stood and watched the Video of the last day at Clonmel the overall reaction was....."WHAT IS THE FUSS ALL ABOUT>>>>THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH IT"
And that was something I heard from many people.............That was why you lost the backing of Henry Keane in the programme The Truth About Bloodsports....because he SAW FOR HIMSELF......He met the People......and he made up his mind after seeing both sides of the storey
Wrong Yvonne. With IMS and MRBI polls, the margin of error is plus or minus 3%.
So even allowing for that margin there is obviously a mega majority favouring a ban. Asking people at a ploughing match hardly amounts to an objective opinion poll.
It has to be conducted by a reputable marketing research firm like the above ones.
A referendum tomorrow on hare coursing would without doubt result in a massive vote for a ban.
Here's another statistic: As far back as 1984 a government committee asked for submissions for or against coursing...of more than 4,500 submissions received, only THREE favoured coursing.
Yes, coursing has a past, like it had in Australia, Germany, Britain, Northern Ireland, Denmark etc...but it has NO FUTURE.
Unless of coursing a drag version is introduced which would be the sensible option.
You don't need to put hares through all that punishment Yvonne. They've done nothing to deserve that.
Re The TV3 programme. that was not an objective or even-handed documentary and this fact has been conceded by TV3. It was basically Henry McKean's humorous personal take on the bloodsports debate. For example he showed no footage of what happens hares or foxes in recreational cruelty. You have to see his other production , "The Truth about Travellers" to see how he deals with issues.
More details of poll findings on www.banbloodsports.com
Firstly your attention to detail folks is quite amazing, its Frankel not Franklin.
To the supporter of data i have said before i find a lot of things on that site excellent, i still disagree with your assesment that they brought about positive change in the IGB and you say there is no proof, then im afraid you must have missed a few threads or months there.
Topics including Limerick Greyhound Stadium, Paschal's personal tirade that Michael Foley was on gardening leave etc etc..you call that a positive shaping of change in the IGB i call it a soap box, but we are not going to agree on that point so i concede there is no point in discussing any further.
Coursing, is not drag racing and people who say chasing a drag is coursing do not understand the meaning of the word. What is going on in Victoria is mere drag racing and they use of the word coursing is wrong, Can i ask how do you turn a drag off course, coursing by all definitions includes wild animals by definitions.
Polls, concerning IMBI etc thats funny as a lot of the polls quoted on the various animal welfare sites dont quote this as their source for a lot of 'poll' results on their various websites.
As for nuts being finished i think you are jumping the gun just like the author did on Sunday last when they basically 'lied' on Indymedia by saying the site had been closed down, but then again on here and with some of you really believe that the press or media is the first writings of history.
I am supposed to feel upset because i say the objective for an owner of a coursing dog is to win a trial stake or cup to compete at the highest level against the best dogs in the country, get a grip if you start out in anything in life with no ambition you will lead a dull life.
Got to go some hounds need feeding, their cereal and fish awaits.
Nobody "lied" about G Nuts closing. It closed on Sunday...but then came back again.
We DO understand the difference between drag coursing and live coursing, just as we understand the difference between badger baiting and a child tearing the insides out of a teddy bear...one practise is deeply cruel, and the other is a humane alternative.
The accounts quoted by others demonstrate that coursing with a dummy hare or lure has perfectly replaced the cruel version in Australia, and this very success is what will defeat live hare coursing in Ireland. There is no need for cruelty in coursing, no need for live hares.
Again, the fact that G Nuts has to restrict acccess to its site even further shows how averse to scrutiny that site is, unlike ALL the animal protection sites.
Frankel, as has already been explained, G Data is way ahead of G Nuts in terms of the service it offers, the quality of its presentations, its level of restraint and aversion to the type of low tactic applied by G Nuts. but the REAL difference to be emphasised is that ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC can visit the DATA site and see what's being discussed. G Nuts is now very much a closed shop, and from this weekend only certain categories of people will be able to access it in any form.
That speaks for itself, and is why I expect many fans of coursing and greyhound racing will come flocking to Data once Nuts goes into lockdown.
How wierd that G Nuts seems to think the IGB appreciates being defended by them. IGB and ICC run a mile from G Nuts, and who'd blame them after seeing the absolute balderdash and untrue comments that appear daily on it. At this year's national coursing meeting special spotters had to be deployed to watch out for G Nuts fans and keep them under observation as decent coursing people felt under threat from them.
The gates of DATA are open like the gates of Heaven to receive disconsolate G Nuts members. Yes, You will be forgiven for putting your trust in that sick excuse for a greyhound forum that is giving coursing and greyhound racing a bad name.
Come on guys, data is known far and wide as being a friend of antis and as such has lost most of their Irish members who have transferred across to nuts.
For Yvonne to say who is and who is not a dog person is laughable as she tried everything to advertise her own money making activities on nuts, we are all aware Yvonne goes to meetings to take photos which she then hopes to sell for a profit.
Nuts have many many members that tune in to get results and updates from meetings they cannot attend, the contributors on nuts give up their free time to get these results and updates out there in real time.
Why have you not spoken about Datas sister site the IGF forum which was set up to leak confidential documents relating to the IGB?
For a member of Data not to know this does not ring true and it takes away all credibility that you are actually a greyhound person.
Its also obvious that you do not know why nuts was set up as you have only read the threads that are left on data from that time and did not read the other threads which data had to remove as it showed their total hatrd for the current igb board.
Just to correct Frankel on one minor point as he has hit the nail on the head with the rest of his posts on here.
Greyhound Nuts now request members to supply them with their ICC owners number.
This was done at th behest of members who want to have serious disscusion about greyhounds and were getting fed up with people butting into threads that have no idea what they are talking about.
There are other forums that supply this service of discussion but greyhound nuts decided to make it for genuine greyhound owners only to talk about there chosen sport.
If people want to ask questions about the sport direct them to Data where the level of knowledge suits newcomers to the sport.
There is a no advertising policy on greyhound nuts which is a not for profit forum unlike greyhound data, this did not suit Yvonne who wanted to advertise daily on there and who tried to advertise in sneaky ways when told to stop, it was best for all concerned that Yvonne left the forum and the forum is a better place for it.
Yvonne may like to see herself as a coursing supporter but many people do not see that side at all, its takes more than taking a few photos before you win the approval of the coursing community.
I have read the above posts and it seems to me that you have 3 protagonists, the Anti Lobby, the Greyhound Nuts Lobby, and the Greyhound data Lobby. Each vying for their share of the market.
For the bulk of us who support coursing, both forums have something to offer, while obviously we would respectfully disagree with the positions of our friends in the anti lobby.
While most of posts here delivered with decorum All 3 protagonists have persons in their ranks that , in their passion to protect their lobby and their positions, resort to unsavoury name calling, lies, sensationalism and such, but by in largel like the bulk of the people who follow coursing, the silent majority will go about their business while these squabbles ensew in the background.
I do agree however that the Greyhound nuts site has enlightened a lot of people as to the lenghts that the Anti Lobby will go to get their message across, and this enlightenement has come by virtue of compilation of reports from other media sources, factual evidence as to the infiltration the animal rights lobby had within the badly damaged Green Party and so on. If the evidence was, as is claimed by the Anti Lobby, libelous I am sure they would be in the courts by now, which is not the case.
I believe this compilation of evidence on the main protagonists of the Animal Rights Lobby, the lack of transparency in their financials, and the widespread campaign in various guises against many practices in Agriculture, tourism and sport has galvinised the Rural Community together, illuminated the nuetral public as to the real agenda at play here and as a result the donate buttons on the Anti sites are not as clicked as they used to be. The greyhound nuts site is definately affecting them which is why they are so anxious to dicredit it, and were gleeful when they mistakenly understood that it had ceased operations last weekend.
With regard to the spat between Data and Nuts, its a bit like a battle between two companies, and its the customers that benefit from this competition. Last season we got great reports from both sites of the various meetings, along with videos, analysis and so on. Inspite of assertions to the contrary Greyhound data however is not all sweetness and roses and its plain to see that certain posters and moderators have a personal campaign of vilification against the IGB and its current administration, which has resulted in a noticeable drop in participation in the forum from Irish Greyhound People. This was by in large the reason why Greyhound Nuts was formed. They have however a data base and classifieds section which is excellent and I trust that many of the Irish Greyhound fraternity utilise same and get great benefit from it. Greyhound nuts is however primarily dependent on its Forum and while most post with defference to the world at large, a few at times have a more colourful turn of expression. But we are all people of the World and you can wince or grin at these contributions as is your wont while enjoying the discourse by in large.
It is obvious to anyone that is following this topic that the anti lobby are trying to utilising the great strategy of the British Empire, ie to divide and conquer, to further their cause. They have tried to set the Greyhound Racing followers and their representative body, the IGB, against the coursing followers and their body the ICC in the past without success as they failed to recognise that the majority have an interest in both and the traditions of the sports are very intertwined. Utilising the obvious animosity between the owners of the two forums to drive a wedge between the greyhound fraternity is an extention of this strategy, but they will find the greyhound people are a tough nut to crack, being as they are so accustomed to the ups and downs that go hand in hand with their sport. They are not 'Fair Weather' supporters.
In regard to Yvonne's Blog and her pictures, they are the highlight of many a coursing enthusiasts monday morning during the season, and she has shown the true majesty of the sport and its people in her photographs. She has also a dog or too competing every year and is a good supporter of the sport. ( I was surprised to hear otherwise in an earlier post). I was sorry that Yvonne has not returned to Greyhound Nuts after her spat with the moderators, but at times conflicts arise and you move on.
Finally, the debate on coursing and other field sports and other agricultural practrices will rage on and on, but I hope that everyone realises that the debate will only be won on reason and logic, informed by fact and knowledge of the subject,and not by sensationalism, lies and propoganda along with liberal language such as sociopaths, rednecks, and barbarians.
One important issue that I forgot to mention was the infamous hare strangling video of last year. This was a revelation to many as to the lenghts that the Animal Rights Lobby would go to keep their businesses going. Greyhound Nuts in fairness to them played a big part in exposing this criminal and disgusting act. Even those on the anti side who through their lack of knowledge of the sport or whatever moral grounds that object to fieldsports were horrified that the leaders of their organisations would stoop to these tactics to get publicity for their cause and their websites.
Further, the excellent and balanced presentation of fieldsports by TV3's Henry McKean, recently screened again the other night have also informed the public to the important social, financial and environmental contributions that these these sports make in Ireland.
Proper information is what the public need in a democratic country. See for yourself the fieldsports before you will make up your mind one way or the other and don't depend on those who have vested interests to provide you with the full and true picture.
Having spoken to moderators on greyhound data, I have discovered they want no part in this divide and conquer strategy.
They have informed me that the issues between greyhound data and greyhound nuts are in the past and have been put to rest.
They are stunned at the comments on this site as they no longer comment on other pro greyhound forums, they have also stated that they would be very surprised if one of their people had posted the propaganda on here about greyhound nuts.
It is as I expected as the issue between greyhound nuts and greyhound data goes back 4 years and it was a furious disagreement about the constant attacking of the IGB by the greyhound data users, there is still disagreement on the IGB between the two forums but it has not erupted for many months now.
It is clear that a poster on here is pretending to be a greyhound data user in the hope of turning public opinion against greyhound nuts, the mistake made is that the public have voted with their registrations to greyhound nuts while Greyhound datas forum has suffered greatly with very little Irish input.
The Greyhound Data database is the best there is and is used extensively by all greyhound people, they are to be commended for developing a database of such magnitude.
For topical discussion the only greyhound forum that counts to many many Irish people is the Greyhound nuts forum, like it or not this is a fact and will not change any time soon.
This quote is my laugh for the day....:)))
"Yvonne may like to see herself as a coursing supporter but many people do not see that side at all, its takes more than taking a few photos before you win the approval of the coursing community."
Thankfully the Clubs do not take your viewpoint...........I am there by ICC and Club invite only and without their approval there would be no weekly pictures.
Id but very surprised if Clubs changed their minds because of trouble making by internet sites...........and after all its the Coursing Clubs that are the root of the Coursing Comunity
But work away boys....YOU are after all doing exactly what the Antis wish.......trying to destroy the Coursing Comunity
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